Troll Con VI Updates

[huds0n]

Fellow Crusaders,

Troll Con VI is soon approaching and Steve in his infinite wisdom has given me task of taking Troll Con to the next level. As most of you know Steve and Co. are very busy, so he has entrusted this event to me.

For those who don't know already Troll Con VI is once again being held at The Castle of Muskogee on March 28-30, 2008. The Castle's unique setting and great atmosphere makes it an ideal place for Troll Con VI.

I am currently working on a schedule of events that will be posted in the coming weeks. If there are events that you would like to see at the Con, drop me a line ( richardmcbain@trolllord.com ) or send me a PM here on the boards. We are open to ideas that will help build attendance at the Con. So if there is an event you would like to see held at the Con, drop me a line.

Troll Con VI is over 4 months away, but it will be here before you know it. So make plans now to attend and we hope to see you there.

Thanks,

Richard
_________________
Richard McBain

Trolllord Games

Convention Coordinator

Executive Director - TrollCon, Winter Dark
richard@trolllord.com

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[Omote]

To get exposure, I'd see if it would be possible to post a LARGER advert on the TLG home page... with a link that leads to this forum and the TrollCon webpage. The current link is pretty small and that side of the home page doesn't change much, so people who come by might completely miss the small link that is there now.

It be great for TrollCon to be a great successful con. As of now, the link itself give NO good info on the con whatsoever.

-O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[tacojohn4547]

Not trying to be a troll here, but this official notice about Troll Con VI

huds0n wrote:
Troll Con VI is being held at The Castle of Muskogee. The Castle's unique setting and great atmosphere makes it an ideal place for Troll Con VI.

is, IMHO, really overstating the "plusses" of holding the convention at the Castle in Muskogee. It is a unique setting, but a great atmosphere it is not.

huds0n wrote:
We are open to ideas that will help build attendance at the Con.

How about hosting it in Little Rock? Or Tulsa? Or OKC?

As I said to Stephen at Gen Con, having Troll Con in Muskogee is really going to limit who can attend, and who will in fact make the effort to get to Muskogee. Muskogee is several hours away from any modest or larger sized city (KC, OKC, Tulsa, Little Rock, Dallas, even God-forbid Wichita), meaning that to get there, folks are going to have to drive for hours (or else fly to one of the hours-away cities and then drive for hours to get there).

As mentioned in the thread about last year's Troll Con, I attended Troll Con last year. So I'm speaking from experience about getting to Muskogee.

Sorry guys, but you need to see the bigger picture on this. TLG isn't enough of a draw all by itself to lure most folks to Muskogee.

tacojohn4547

[huds0n]

tacojohn4547 wrote:
Not trying to be a troll here, but this official notice about Troll Con VI


is, IMHO, really overstating the "plusses" of holding the convention at the Castle in Muskogee. It is a unique setting, but a great atmosphere it is not.



How about hosting it in Little Rock? Or Tulsa? Or OKC?

As I said to Stephen at Gen Con, having Troll Con in Muskogee is really going to limit who can attend, and who will in fact make the effort to get to Muskogee. Muskogee is several hours away from any modest or larger sized city (KC, OKC, Tulsa, Little Rock, Dallas, even God-forbid Wichita), meaning that to get there, folks are going to have to drive for hours (or else fly to one of the hours-away cities and then drive for hours to get there).

As mentioned in the thread about last year's Troll Con, I attended Troll Con last year. So I'm speaking from experience about getting to Muskogee.

Sorry guys, but you need to see the bigger picture on this. TLG isn't enough of a draw all by itself to lure most folks to Muskogee.

tacojohn4547

Tacojohn,

I can understand the frustration and disappointment that is associated with last years TrollCon. No one feels it more than Steve and Co. That's why i've been given the task of running TrollCon this year.

The Trolls are simply way to busy to dedicate to making sure the Con is a success, and the people that have been entrusted to run it in the past have quite frankly done little to no work to ensure that the Con is a successful one.

I know that those who did attend last year probably felt burned by the lack of attendance. I am doing everything to ensure that this will not happen again this year. Part of that was looking at the location itself. Understanding that Muskogee is in of itself not the first place people might think of when considering attending a Con, it is within a 5 hour drive of Little Rock, Oklahoma City, and Dallas. Not a bad pool to pull from for attendance if you ask me.

For those who did attend last year, if you do plan on attending this year, let Steve know when pre-register and you'll get half off your attendance. We're calling it the Magnificent Seven discount.

All i can tell you at this point is to give us a chance. There are lots of things in the works and this month you'll start to see major updates to TrollCon. If you have any specific questions feel free to email me.

Thanks,
_________________
Richard McBain

Trolllord Games

Convention Coordinator

Executive Director - TrollCon, Winter Dark
richard@trolllord.com

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ALEA IACTA EST - THE DIE IS CAST

[gideon_thorne]

The Castle is about 45 minutes from Tulsa and about 90 minutes from OKC. And yet, despite being all that distance away from several cities and states, the Castle gets quite a bit of traffic from all over the country, and in some cases internationally.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[tacojohn4547]

Yeah, yeah, you guys tossed that Magnificent Seven discount idea out at Gen Con. Im overwhelmed with your generosity.
I realize Ive become a bit jaded towards small local conventions. I got burned on two back-to-back small conventions earlier this year. Troll Con was almost a total bust (the saving graces being finally getting to meet Peter and Stephen, and seeing Casey and Kathy again). Lets be honest here, though. There were, what, 7 paying attendees at Troll Con V. I brought 3 of those attendees in my vehicle! Without much effort, I can organize a game day for my extended gaming group and count on 15-20 gamers showing up. And theyre all local.

Gorilla Con 4 in Pittsburgh, KS was a couple of weeks after Troll Con and was almost as bad, but for different reasons. I was going to run a game (AD&D, natch!) but by the time I got to the con on Saturday, the players had decided to play Magic: the Gathering instead of my game. The one saving grace for Gorilla Con was that I got to meet and play in a game with one of the editors from Table Top Adventures. Otherwise, though, Gorilla Con 4 was a total wash.

Seriously - I want to consider coming. I want to give gaming with the Trolls a chance.

Im just having a hard time with the cost/benefit equation. If I do consider coming, its going to cost at least $70 in gas, plus $50 to $100 for a hotel room, plus $15 for the registration (that includes the Magnificent Seven discount). Thats $185. Plus, I effectively loose the 7 hours of driving time (3 and a half hours, one way, from Wichita). Comparing that to gaming with my local group, my drive is 10 minutes, I dont have to pay for 25 gallons of gas, a room or a registration fee, and I dont incur the wrath of my wife and kids for being abandoned for a whole weekend.
Your observation that Muskogee isnt Lake Geneva or Milwaukee is at the heart of why I raised my concern:

Quote:
Understanding that Muskogee is in of itself not the first place people might think of when considering attending a Con, it is within a 5 hour drive of Little Rock, Oklahoma City, and Dallas. Not a bad pool to pull from for attendance if you ask me.

A similar conclusion could be reached about Hays, KS. Its 5 or 6 hours from both KC and Denver. Both are big cities (1 million + residents in the respective metro areas) that host regional gaming conventions themselves. But the bigger question is, who the hell is going to go to Hays to attend a gaming convention????

Who, outside of a very small pool of rabid TLG or C&C fans located within a one-state radius of Muskogee, are going to make the effort to attend Troll Con with it being held in Muskogee? That is the question that I'm struggling with from an organizational and logistics standpoint.

And, just so that you know that I'm not a troll (in the bad sense of being a troll), I am a fairly big supporter of TLG even though I don't use C&C for my games. I've bought most of the C&C product line, including 3 PHBs, 5 Yggsburgs, 3 East Mark Folios, the Haunted Highlands products in both print and pdf, and the whole Gygaxian Fantasy World line.

Peter, thanks for the clarification on the distance from Tulsa to Muskogee. I had forgotten it was only 49 miles between the two. But youre right, it is less than an hours drive.

tacojohn4547

[gideon_thorne]

tacojohn4547 wrote:
Who, outside of a very small pool of rabid TLG or C&C fans located within a one-state radius of Muskogee, are going to make the effort to attend Troll Con with it being held in Muskogee? That is the question that I'm struggling with from an organizational and logistics standpoint.

Tulsa is the central hub of Sci Fi conventions in a 4 state area. Bringing the crowd that goes to the Tulsa con's to TrollKon is purely a matter of advertising. ^_^
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[serleran]

And, supposedly, there is a very large fan-base in the Midwest. Perhaps getting the word out to the larger brick-and-mortars across the Bible Belt might be of help?

[gideon_thorne]

Oh, and trust me, putting conventions on in Little Rock is not a good proposition. The convention circuit in Arkansas has been fading for the last 25 years and the last great convention out there, RocKon, seems to have faded into silence.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[Troll Lord]

Actually, LR has excellent convention services. They've upgraded everything downtown, and the River Market and Clinton Library are very huge attractions for folks. Its clean with a trolly, museums and the like. Location is good as well with an airport, amtrac and bus service as well as being central to Memphis, Dallas, St. Louis and Oklahoma City.

But, shortly I'll start a new thread on our choice for Muskogee.

Steve
_________________
The High Lord, Coburg the Undying

He who sits on the elephants back

Castle and Crusade Society
troll@trolllord.com

[Tadhg]

I would love to attend Troll CON and will try my best to be there. The castle and environs look cool enough and I love small towns.

Little Rock would be very do-able for sure in the future.

_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

[huds0n]

tacojohn4547 wrote:
Yeah, yeah, you guys tossed that Magnificent Seven discount idea out at Gen Con. Im overwhelmed with your generosity.
I realize Ive become a bit jaded towards small local conventions. I got burned on two back-to-back small conventions earlier this year. Troll Con was almost a total bust (the saving graces being finally getting to meet Peter and Stephen, and seeing Casey and Kathy again). Lets be honest here, though. There were, what, 7 paying attendees at Troll Con V. I brought 3 of those attendees in my vehicle! Without much effort, I can organize a game day for my extended gaming group and count on 15-20 gamers showing up. And theyre all local.

Gorilla Con 4 in Pittsburgh, KS was a couple of weeks after Troll Con and was almost as bad, but for different reasons. I was going to run a game (AD&D, natch!) but by the time I got to the con on Saturday, the players had decided to play Magic: the Gathering instead of my game. The one saving grace for Gorilla Con was that I got to meet and play in a game with one of the editors from Table Top Adventures. Otherwise, though, Gorilla Con 4 was a total wash.

Seriously - I want to consider coming. I want to give gaming with the Trolls a chance.

Im just having a hard time with the cost/benefit equation. If I do consider coming, its going to cost at least $70 in gas, plus $50 to $100 for a hotel room, plus $15 for the registration (that includes the Magnificent Seven discount). Thats $185. Plus, I effectively loose the 7 hours of driving time (3 and a half hours, one way, from Wichita). Comparing that to gaming with my local group, my drive is 10 minutes, I dont have to pay for 25 gallons of gas, a room or a registration fee, and I dont incur the wrath of my wife and kids for being abandoned for a whole weekend.
Your observation that Muskogee isnt Lake Geneva or Milwaukee is at the heart of why I raised my concern:


A similar conclusion could be reached about Hays, KS. Its 5 or 6 hours from both KC and Denver. Both are big cities (1 million + residents in the respective metro areas) that host regional gaming conventions themselves. But the bigger question is, who the hell is going to go to Hays to attend a gaming convention????

Who, outside of a very small pool of rabid TLG or C&C fans located within a one-state radius of Muskogee, are going to make the effort to attend Troll Con with it being held in Muskogee? That is the question that I'm struggling with from an organizational and logistics standpoint.

And, just so that you know that I'm not a troll (in the bad sense of being a troll), I am a fairly big supporter of TLG even though I don't use C&C for my games. I've bought most of the C&C product line, including 3 PHBs, 5 Yggsburgs, 3 East Mark Folios, the Haunted Highlands products in both print and pdf, and the whole Gygaxian Fantasy World line.

Peter, thanks for the clarification on the distance from Tulsa to Muskogee. I had forgotten it was only 49 miles between the two. But youre right, it is less than an hours drive.

tacojohn4547

Tacojohn,

All of your concerns about TrollCon are noted and have been discussed with the Trolls.

All I can really say are three things:

1) The people entrusted in the past to run this event have COMPLETELY DROPPED THE BALL ON PROMOTING AND WORKING TO MAKE TROLLCON A GREAT EVENT. In other words, they aren't me. Not to toot my own horn, but ask Breakdaddy what he thinks of my ability to put on a successful Convention.

2) Two words, Gary Gygax. Gary's presence at LGGC and Winter Dark ensure that Im already behind the eight ball in trying to draw people to TrollCon. I'm not upset about that fact, but its reality. You let it be known that Gary will be attending a Convention and people will show up to watch paint dry for an entire weekend.

3) After this years TrollCon (if not successful), Muskogee will be re-evaluated as the location for the Con.

Bottom line is, Im working my ass to make sure that TrollCon VI is a great event. All I can do is hope that you decide to make the trip so a great time will be had by all. As always, if you have any questions feel free to contact me.

PS...Your discount would make it $10 for pre-reg, $15 at the door. Just FYI.
_________________
Richard McBain

Trolllord Games

Convention Coordinator

Executive Director - TrollCon, Winter Dark
richard@trolllord.com

------------------------------------------

ALEA IACTA EST - THE DIE IS CAST

[tacojohn4547]

Quote:
Tacojohn,

All of your concerns about TrollCon are noted and have been discussed with the Trolls.

All I can really say are three things:

1) The people entrusted in the past to run this event have COMPLETELY DROPPED THE BALL ON PROMOTING AND WORKING TO MAKE TROLLCON A GREAT EVENT. In other words, they aren't me. Not to toot my own horn, but ask Breakdaddy what he thinks of my ability to put on a successful Convention.

2) Two words, Gary Gygax. Gary's presence at LGGC and Winter Dark ensure that Im already behind the eight ball in trying to draw people to TrollCon. I'm not upset about that fact, but its reality. You let it be known that Gary will be attending a Convention and people will show up to watch paint dry for an entire weekend.

3) After this years TrollCon (if not successful), Muskogee will be re-evaluated as the location for the Con.

Bottom line is, Im working my ass to make sure that TrollCon VI is a great event. All I can do is hope that you decide to make the trip so a great time will be had by all. As always, if you have any questions feel free to contact me.

PS...Your discount would make it $10 for pre-reg, $15 at the door. Just FYI.

Richard,

Thank you for hearing my concerns. And thank you for taking them up with the Trolls. I genuinely appreciate that, and I appreciate that TLG is the kind of company that will even hear concerns raised by their customers.

In raising these concerns, it was never my intent to bust your chops or suggest anything about you or your abilities not being up to the task of organizing and running Troll Con VI. My only intent was to convey, in clear and certain terms, doubts that I have about the venue that has been chosen for the next Troll Con.

As for your second point, I agree fully. Gary Gygax is a huge drawing card. Getting a chance to game with the grandfather of our beloved hobby and some of his friends from the old days is precisely why I hope to get to go to LGGC in 2008. Unfortunately, it doesnt appear that such notable figures as Gary Gygax and Frank Mentzer will be attending Troll Con VI. And that was the point I was trying to make in my first post.

And as for your third point, about re-evaluating the choice of venue if this years convention doesnt turn out a whole lot better, that is the kind of honest feedback I appreciate hearing. In fact, thats the best response I could have hoped for at this point in the planning.

As for attending Troll Con VI, who knows? Im already more open to it, just from having this exchange with you. I'd still like the chance to game with some of the online community from these boards, like Sieg. And in the end, I do hope the convention turns out to be a big hit.

tacojohn

[jfall]

Hi guys,

Little late to the party here, but I thought that I'd toss in that I live in Denver and it would be about a 750 mile (roughly 11 hour) journey by car for me to attend. I'd love to come and play C&C for three days though! That would seriously be a hoot. But if there are only 7 paying attendees, then how much of a chance is there to get a C&C game going? (vs. Lejendary Adventures, D&D, etc.)

I might be able to bring out a total of 4 people, including me. But I'd have to convince them that it would be worth the drive and money.

Tacojohn's concern about weighing gaming with a local group for three days versus driving, paying and then not ending up gaming due to low attendance is certainly valid. Especially when you drive 11 hours one-way.

In short, I'll bring up attending Trollcon w/ my local group and see if I get any interest.

[Khorvus]

Speaking as one of the magnificent seven, I enjoyed last years event. I have been to three conventions with the Trolls and had fun at each one.

I really enjoyed the Castle, and even though I live in the Oklahoma City area, I hope it stays in Muskogee.

I know the Trolls felt bad about last year, and I hope that the attendance will be up as well.

[Joe]

Having it is a castle is actually a plus on me attending.

I have not gone to a con yet and I really don't want to go to a big city and sit in a loud convention center for my first experience.

I wanted to go to WinterCon but I felt it wouldf have been self indulgent to do so...long story.

I talked myself out of it and said I would meet Gary next year.

Well you all can imagine what a good idea that turned out being.

Instead of complaining heres an idea...

Richard,

What could we as players do to help?

[huds0n]

Joe wrote:
Having it is a castle is actually a plus on me attending.

I have not gone to a con yet and I really don't want to go to a big city and sit in a loud convention center for my first experience.

I wanted to go to WinterCon but I felt it wouldf have been self indulgent to do so...long story.

I talked myself out of it and said I would meet Gary next year.

Well you all can imagine what a good idea that turned out being.

Instead of complaining heres an idea...

Richard,

What could we as players do to help?

The best thing you can do as players is to attend and bring a car full of your friends ready to spend the weekend gaming!
_________________
Richard McBain

Trolllord Games

Convention Coordinator

Executive Director - TrollCon, Winter Dark
richard@trolllord.com

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ALEA IACTA EST - THE DIE IS CAST