d10 Initiative

Kathorus · Post by **Kathorus** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:37 pm

Is there some reason not to use a d20?

I remember in the red box, rolling d6.

Then AD&D was d10.

Then 3e was d20.

While playing the other day, we decided to go back to the d20. The reason, there was far too many equal rolls using the d10. Over 8 combats there were at least 4 where 3 initiative numbers were the same. The rules handle this in the highest dex method, which works fine, just seemed like I was tracking dex more then when I use the d20 method.

Has anyone else encountered this or know of an issue with d20 that I might be overlooking?

Thanks.

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:51 pm

No reason not to. I used the d20 in my games for initiative (no modifiers though) and I have no problems. The reason I kept the d20 is exactly for the reason you mention. A d20 will promote diversity is you are doing individual initiative.

M
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:18 pm

We use a d20. This is fortunate as quite a lot of battles tend to have around two dozen participants. A smaller die would crowd numbers on the init and defeat the purpose. Plus even way back in the red box days we used a d20.
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Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:19 pm

We use 1D10 for the various parties, individually modified for Dexterity.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:22 pm

You can use whatever you want, as long as everyone uses the same at the table (assuming you're doing individual initiative anyway.) There is no reason, except aesthetics, to use anything when it comes to who goes first; you could just flip a coin, or roll a d8 and say "on odds, party goes first." All that really matters is that you like it.

Kathorus · Post by **Kathorus** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:25 pm

Back in the red box days we rolled one die for each side and if I remember right there was an order that each type of attack went in, so the d6 worked pretty well.

Kathorus · Post by **Kathorus** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:29 pm

Do whatever we like.

I like the sound of that.

I am real jumpy about changing things, been beaten down by the emmense rules offering of 3e.

"You can't change that, if you do half of my feats, skills, and uber-abilities become useless!!!"

GameOgre · Post by **GameOgre** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:30 pm

I think im going to try to move ot a d20 with Dex mods for it. Ive been going with a d10 with dex mods and although I do want dex mods to count I think they are counting too much. Also a d20 would let me feel a bit more free to use casting times. Yeah yeah i know its not exactly fair to use spell CT and not use weapon mods but who said i was fair. Dang Wizards running around my world blowing everything to heck and back
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:46 pm

Well, most CTs are 1, so you're not changing a whole lot. Simplest solution to that problem is to have everyone state what they are doing before they roll the die, and then give them a penalty to initiative based on what they do (or not as you prefer.)

For example:

Casting spell: -4

Moving: -2

Attack with held weapon: --

Retrieve object: - 3

And whatever else...

Penalties are cumulative, so if you move to a sword on the ground, pick it up, and then attack with it, you're at a -5 initiative.

Some actions don't call for initiative to be rolled, such as waiting for someone else to go (you go after they do, automatically.)

If you wish to interrupt someone from going, you would roll initiative, but it would not come into effect until the other guy started his action, and the you would compare initiatives - if yours is better, you get to go before he finishes his.

Also, never forget that simultaneous actions are dramatic!

Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:27 pm

I use a d6 and (usually) group initiative.
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rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:01 pm

Philotomy Jurament wrote:
I use a d6 and (usually) group initiative.

Same here. Classic D&D initiative works perfectly for me. Actually, I use the revised initiative in the Immortal Set, which allows diversity in resolution with only one die roll.

Jyrdan Fairblade · Post by **Jyrdan Fairblade** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:05 pm

It's 1d10 + dex bonus for initiative for me.

That being said, with large groups, I just roll per side, so that it's 1d10 for each side. And then within that it's in order by dexterity (or just by clockwise or counterclockwise seating, if it's a large group).

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:07 pm

I use d10, dex modifies the roll (as does the # of monster HD before anyone asks) and everyone rolls individually.
But I like chaos, so thats all good.
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Kathorus · Post by **Kathorus** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:39 pm

Wow, you know what is really cool?

All these differing methods, and no one told anyone that their method sucked, or was unbalanced, or that they would refuse to play in that game. This place ROCKS!!!

Just... Wow...

shane · Post by **shane** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:43 pm

3d6, back in the 1e days. Just for consistency (bell curve and all that). We even tried using 3d6 for atack rolls, but it just wasn't the same.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:48 pm

Quote:
We even tried using 3d6 for atack rolls, but it just wasn't the same.

This could be problematic without an overhaul of the AC system, but could work with some number-changing.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:58 pm

WHY USE THE D10!

The only reason to use the d10 is because C&C has 10 seconds in a combat round. Thats the only reason why.

10 seconds = 1 round

6 rounds = 1minute, which is called a turn in C&C

So I use the d10 and on "ties" I then refer to who has the highest DEX, then CHA, then WIS (this is the furthest I have had to go so far), then I would use STR, then CON, the INT. IF they are identical all the way then roll another d10.

Actually, just have them re-roll a d10 between them until one beats the other. Much faster.

Why not use DEX bonus? You can, but for consistency, reality, whatever you want to call it, work out what happens when 10 is exceeded.

Plus monsters are not given a DEX bonus, so this means PC's with DEX bonus' will beat monsters often. IF that isn't going to bother the CK, then its fine to use it.

Now if you switch to d20 are you changing the length of a round? IF so then it will be 20 seconds and three rounds per minute. Which screws spell casters because you will effectively cut their durations in half when their duration is expressed in turns (one minute). So then you must decide to either leave the casters screwed or double the durations based on turns.

Or you can keep rounds at 10 seconds and have each number on a d20 represent half a second and use DEX bonus with each bonus being equal to adding a half second to the roll.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:41 pm

When I played CarWars I got a buddy of mine to try it out. He had only played D&D up to this point. When he asked us how we determine who goes first (initiative) we told him it was from the fastest to the slowest.

Then he gives us this look like " " and says "How fast can I go?"

He caught on quick.

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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:56 pm

Our group uses d6. It has worked well for us, but we are easy like that.

Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:56 pm

I don't use a die, except for ties.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:01 am

I'm a control freak and tried just telling people when they would go. The better snacks and drinks brought to the session would insure better initiatives. It didn't work though, whiney players.
So, We always went with a d10. I think we may have used d20 at time as well. In the end, it doesn't make a big difference.

Do what's cool with ya.

Pitfighter · Post by **Pitfighter** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:31 pm

I've been using a d10 for initiative. In case of ties I let my players go first, then I let the characters that took Dex as a Prime go in order of Dex, then the non Prime Dex's in order. It's been working pretty good for me.

Kathorus · Post by **Kathorus** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:17 pm

Right, Primes, I got to start thinking in those terms. That makes sense for sorting out ties.

I still think that not having ties in the first place is a goal, and d20 makes ties less likely.

I also saw in the rules that the actual time and initiative order do not corollate, I like this level of abstraction. Initiative order is just a metagame way of handling combat at the table.

Really enjoy all the suggestions and examples.

Witterquick · Post by **Witterquick** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:03 pm

I use a card draw: everyone gets a card, another for opponents as a group. Random draw, no one knows who gets to go next until it is their turn. Keeps the suspense up.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:04 pm

Treebore wrote:
WHY USE THE D10!

The only reason to use the d10 is because C&C has 10 seconds in a combat round. Thats the only reason why.

You know... I never made the connection. If it was written that 1d10 was used because there is 10 seconds in a round (in the book), I must have missed it. If something similar was written in the older AD&D or classic D&D books, I didn't read it there either.

Funny how the little details can escape you.

M
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Nelzie · Post by **Nelzie** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:32 pm

We use d10 and a simple house rule.

Dex modifier is added or subtracted from the d10 roll. Equal results happen at exactly the same moment.

This means that two character could strike killing blows on one another at the same time, it hasn't happened yet, but it very well could happen.

Nobody complains, things still move swiftly and everyone is happy.
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Dragonhelm · Post by **Dragonhelm** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:01 pm

Kathorus wrote:
Wow, you know what is really cool?

All these differing methods, and no one told anyone that their method sucked, or was unbalanced, or that they would refuse to play in that game. This place ROCKS!!!

Just... Wow...

Cool, huh?
I've used a d10 + Dex mod since my AD&D days. When I went to d20, I used the d20 + Dex because that's what the rules call for. When C&C came along, I was glad to go back to the d10 + Dex. It made for a cool "countdown" effect.

Thing is, I've used the d20 enough now that I kind of miss it. So I'm wondering if I should go back.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:17 pm

Dragonhelm wrote:
Cool, huh?
I've used a d10 + Dex mod since my AD&D days. When I went to d20, I used the d20 + Dex because that's what the rules call for. When C&C came along, I was glad to go back to the d10 + Dex. It made for a cool "countdown" effect.

Thing is, I've used the d20 enough now that I kind of miss it. So I'm wondering if I should go back.

Its a mental thing, with the D10 your just using a d20 divided by 2.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:39 pm

I think the d10 method works fine. I havn't used DEX mod to modify the effect yet, to give the game a certain uneasyness to combat. I use a simple feat system which can give the PC a +2, but as said above if there is a tie I go with a comparison of dex scores... and since monsters don't have a dex score, PCs win. This has worked for me.

-O
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:00 am

Omote wrote:
I think the d10 method works fine. I havn't used DEX mod to modify the effect yet, to give the game a certain uneasyness to combat. I use a simple feat system which can give the PC a +2, but as said above if there is a tie I go with a comparison of dex scores... and since monsters don't have a dex score, PCs win. This has worked for me.

-O

Yeah, with monsters and tied init and PC's I always give the benefit of the doubt to PC's. Its only with creatures/NPC's that I take the time to give actual stats to that the PC's will have to worry.
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