Silver Based Economy

[stoneshape]

Hi all,

I'm looking for ideas to use a silver based economy. Anyone doing this?

Care to share what you've come up with? Maybe suggest books that have

done this well, or links on the net.

Thanks

[Zudrak]

IIRC, 1e AD&D assumed a silver based economy.
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AD&D, Amish Dungeons & Dragons.

"Galstaff, ye are in a cornfield, when a moustachioed man approaches. What say ye?"

"I shun him."

-----

"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."

-- E. Gary Gygax

[Omote]

Currently all of my campaigns are a silver based economy. Since I'm playing D&D and C&C, the rewards for defeating monsters straight out of the book are very, very high when running a silver based campaign. The rewards I give out are therefore a lot less then BTB. That is because gold coinage is just that much more rare. If you keep rewards by the book, prepare for the PCs to be super wealthy within a few sessions.

As for the costs of goods and services, I leave them as is. It's very tough for your average commoner to make good enough wages to purchase armor for example.

For lower level PC, trading goods and equipment was a neccessary part of the adventure to upgrade armor/weapons, etc.

I have always loved running adventures like this, but some times it grates on players nerves, the low rewards and the bartering and trading sometimes needed for the level of economics. Sometimes it is espacially rewarding to play like this, even for player, who might be in aq low magic setting.

-O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[Treebore]

I use some cool documents for Harn at Lythia.com.
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[Matthew]

Not sure exactly what the parameters of this question are. Is the inference that gold is worthless or less valued than silver or more valuable, on account of being rarer?

Most transactions in D&D/C&C would likely be in silver with gold being used for larger units (such as by merchants). The twenty to one ratio of AD&D suggests that Gygax may have had shillings to pounds in mind when he came up with it, but that is a somewhat anachronistic approach; silver pennies were the backbone of the day to day economy in the medieval west. A 'pound' was a pound of silver (and not a modern pound either, more like four fifths of the modern English pound).

240 silver pennies were intended to be equivalent to one pound of silver; the average weight of a single penny was around 1.2 to 1.5g (about 24 grains), which gets you something like 300 to the modern pound. When Charlemagne standardised silver coinage in this way he apparently intended twelve silver pennies to be equivalent to one gold coin. Gold coins weighed more like 4.0-4.5g, which suggests an exchange rate of 4:1, but by 1100 AD the exchange rate was more like 10:1.
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It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after ones own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350)

[BASH MAN]

Step 1: Set conversion rates. None of this 10gp to 1sp stuff. Gold is worth a lot more than that-- especially in a medieval world. I would set the exchange rate at 50:1.

Step 2: Change all prices to SP-- (but just 10x the listed GP price). So a sword that was 7gp is now 70SP in cost (or 1gp & 20 sp)

Step 3: Convert treasure. Divide # of PP found by 10. Divide number of gp found by 5. Multiply number of SP found by 10. Multiply number of cp found by 10.

So a dragon that had 1,000pp, 1,000gp, 1,000sp, and 1,000 cp (total value= 111,100sp) would now have:

100pp, 200 gp, 10,000sp, and 10,000cp (total value = 17,000 sp-- but 1sp can buy a lot more in this setting.)
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[sieg]

I did this once and my players hated me.
But as a historian it grates on me how common gold is in the ubiquitous AD&D/C&C game. So, to get around it I do either:

1. As noted above, change all prices to silver x10. When characters use their starting money to gear up I let the gold they start with count as normal to the price lists. Otherwise you end up with PCs that argue about who gets to wear the helmet this time and whose turn is it to wield the longsword. Maybe accurate but not so fun.

Any money left over gets demoted to silver. With treasure, simply degrade each coin type one rank (ie Platinum becomes gold, electrum silver, silver copper, etc.) I introduced a "brass penny" to allow for the copper piece degredation.

2. The method I'm becoming more fond of is saying that a standard "gold piece" isn't really solid gold. Its a gold plate upon the coin, which has a core of either bronze or brass. Depending on the country in my world of Aedenne, the gold content of a "gold coin" varies a bit. Old Imperial coins tend to be the best, with the core only being 1/8th or so and the rest pure gold.

This allows for a more realistic economy (IMO) while reducing conversion problems.

Either way, let us know what you do and how it goes!
Mike
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[vegabond]

I too use a silver piece standard.

It's easy, change all GP to SP and all SP to CP. That's it your done.

Then depending on who the PC's fight or where they find loot I give it to them in GP, SP or CP.

For example they killed and ogre recently that was attacking merchants and found 100 SP and 2,000 CP. (Now they have to figure out how to carry 2,000 coins. He he.) When they defeat the wizard he will most definately have GP, maybe even PP (platinum) or EP (electrum).

[Zudrak]

BASH MAN wrote:
Step 1: Set conversion rates. None of this 10gp to 1sp stuff. Gold is worth a lot more than that-- especially in a medieval world. I would set the exchange rate at 50:1.

Step 2: Change all prices to SP-- (but just 10x the listed GP price). So a sword that was 7gp is now 70SP in cost (or 1gp & 20 sp)

Step 3: Convert treasure. Divide # of PP found by 10. Divide number of gp found by 5. Multiply number of SP found by 10. Multiply number of cp found by 10.

So a dragon that had 1,000pp, 1,000gp, 1,000sp, and 1,000 cp (total value= 111,100sp) would now have:

100pp, 200 gp, 10,000sp, and 10,000cp (total value = 17,000 sp-- but 1sp can buy a lot more in this setting.)

Thanks, BASHMAN! This answers my question in the other thread I started. Hope you don't mind if I "steal" this idea.

Yoink!
_________________
AD&D, Amish Dungeons & Dragons.

"Galstaff, ye are in a cornfield, when a moustachioed man approaches. What say ye?"

"I shun him."

-----

"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."

-- E. Gary Gygax

[Matthew]

Actually, the gold to silver exchange rate during the medieval period apparently varied from 7:1 to 12:1. 10:1 is a fairly reasonable average. However, coin purity is a much different situation. French silver coinage devalued a lot, which may give the impression of higher exchange rates.

In the ransom arrangements for Louis IX c. 1250, for instance, 500,000 French Livres were thought to be equivalent to 1,000,000 Saracen Bezants, which is theoretically something like c. 400 grams of Silver to 8-9 grams of gold.

Other sources from the end of the twelfth century put the value at 7 Sous Tournois (84 Silver Coins) to one Saracen Bezant and 79 Sous Tournois, 6 Denier to 1 lb Sterling (which is to say 954 French Silver Coins to 240 English Silver Coins).
_________________
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after ones own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350)

[Omote]

Matter of fact, it's always nice to have a little monetary situation like this in a C&C game (where money might play a larger role). What kind of RPing situations could you get into where a character paid for services, a keep, magic items or whatever with impure silver. The guilds could come after the PC or maybe a big bruiser collection agent.

-O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[Stuie]

Treebore wrote:
I use some cool documents for Harn at Lythia.com.

I lifted my campaign economy from Harn as well. Silver based, Usurer's Notes, etc. etc. Has a better feel to it for my money.
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Laudir Agus Mir

[BLOOD AXE]

If you can get your hands on the older MERP books (Middle-Earth Role-Playing from ICE or even RoleMaster) it has a decent monetary system & tons of equipment/item price charts. Alot of the dventure books even had different price charts for the region, some items being rarer(so more expensive). For example- a farming community had produce/livestock commonly available, but swords/armor were rarer & more expensive. Also gold is much rarer & more valuable.

[mordrene]

Runequest is also a silver based society. you cam download the SRD of the new runequest at mongoose.

[serleran]

I don't use money. People have to barter for everything.