Amazon

Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:30 pm

Hey folks,

For those of you who like to order from Amazon, I will be updating our products catalog over there for the next several weeks.

I've just uploaded the East Mark Gazetteer. Should be available in the next 7-10 days.

Thanks,

Steve
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:10 am

Cool. Buying from Amazon can beat waiting for the next sale. Sometimes.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:14 am

Bah, I don't order from Amazon (RPG stuff) if I can help it. TLG stuff needs to be gotten from the old game shop. Just wouldn't feel right not doing that.

-O
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:37 am

I prefer getting my stuff from Steve's cold drunk hands, myself. Course that means not getting anything for about 4 years since I never see him... but, oh well. More fun that way.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:58 am

Just drive yourself down to R-Kansas and pry your goods from Steve's cold, drunken hands. Or call him up on the telephone, whichever.
-O
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:30 am

Since I don't have a "friendly" LGS, I'm happy to buy direct from the Trolls or Amazon and Noble Knight Games.

Since I buy so much, I really have to wait sometimes and order online to save a few bucks. When it's something I can't wait for, I'll order direct.

Glad to have all the options.

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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:33 am

To bad you don't have a friendly local gaming store. I was just talking to the game store near me, and he still says it's a constant struggle to compete with the online dealers. Brick and mortar stores just don't have the margins to deep discount, and that is actually kind of sad.

I'm still of the opinion that with out Brick and Mortar stores, many games won't see the play they deserve. Actual face to face conversation sells a game much better then endless words on messageboards.

-O
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Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:36 am

Rhuvein wrote:
Since I don't have a "friendly" LGS, I'm happy to buy direct from the Trolls or Amazon and Noble Knight Games.

Since I buy so much, I really have to wait sometimes and order online to save a few bucks. When it's sometime I can't wait for, I'll order direct.

Glad to have all the options.

Same here. No FLGS that carries RPG stuff anyways. I buy all my C&C stuff straight from the Trolls or from Amazon.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:52 am

I jut got word that Amazon is going to be refunding me for their mistake, so, that makes me happy. I'll be able to buy some new stuff now. Yay!

Dristram · Post by **Dristram** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:31 am

Omote wrote:
To bad you don't have a friendly local gaming store. I was just talking to the game store near me, and he still says it's a constant struggle to compete with the online dealers. Brick and mortar stores just don't have the margins to deep discount, and that is actually kind of sad.

That, and the volume of sales needed to support selling at less than retail. Amazon.com doesn't rely upon the selling of gaming products to pay its bills. It has many methods to make money. Selling product online is only part of it, thus making full margins from its products is not necessary. High traffic to their website is what they really need. And offering low prices is the key to getting that traffic.

Quote:
I'm still of the opinion that with out Brick and Mortar stores, many games won't see the play they deserve. Actual face to face conversation sells a game much better then endless words on messageboards.

I'm in agreement. You know, if all gamers decided to buy only from local game stores they would see many things change. One, they would see many more products stocked on the shelves equating to a much larger selection including larger RPG selections again. And, there would be larger and many more game stores around. They wouldn't be so rare. And with many more game stores, there would be a much larger exposure to our kinds of games and thus an increase in the numbers of new gamers, thus a growth to the industry. Right now it seems, that manufacturers are already producing products to sell to existing gamers more than to the new gamers because new gamers to our industry is much slower than it could be. Manufacturers have a hard time not liking the internet. It seems to many of them that their sales can only be so large because of the internet. They've been fooled.

Physical locations selling hobby games are needed to grow the hobby. The internet will not grow the hobby. To look at an example, look to the history of the model train industry. It's a sad look at where our hobby could be heading.

Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:16 pm

The importance of local brick and mortar shops cannot be overstated. By placing books on shelves, even if they don't sell immediately, publishers get more meaningful traffic than even the web can provide, especially if the retailers run events.

I appreciate the web business and have come to count on it as a major source of revenue for TLG but we do want to reverse the trend and get more material in shops.

The problem is, at least with TLG, that retailers are still reluctant to experiment, even with an expensive game like C&C and we aren't getting that face time.

The more consumers buy locally, the long term better it is for us.

Amazon is GREAT for folks over seas and in Canada however.

Steve
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He who sits on the elephants back

Castle and Crusade Society
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:01 pm

Roger Amazon.

Dristram · Post by **Dristram** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:48 pm

Troll Lord wrote:
The problem is, at least with TLG, that retailers are still reluctant to experiment, even with an expensive game like C&C and we aren't getting that face time.

And it's understandable now in the current market trend for gamers buying more online than in stores. From what I can tell, RPGs were hit the hardest in regards to B&M stores loosing sales to the internet. So for most B&M stores, RPGs are a poor seller and thus any new RPG system is a gamble whether it will be wasted money or not.

From all my years in the B&M industry, I've heard comments like this many times.

"I'll buy my miniatures and dice from you, but I can get RPGs so cheap online that I just have to buy there."

"I only buy RPGs in .pdf now."

"I can get .pdf's of my RPGs online for free!"

Board games and CCGs have been hit similarly. Only miniature wargames remain constant big sellers in a majority of game stores now. Games Workshop had a vested interest in keeping sales of their products coming from B&M stores because of their own shops. As such, they restricted any online store from selling their prodcuts at a discount online. It's ensured GW games are good sellers in B&M stores and why I and many other stores happily carry them.

Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:37 pm

For me buying online isn't about getting it cheap. It's the only place where I can get most of the gaming things that I want. The closest book store is an old miniscule B. Dalton (Barnes & Noble). The closest gaming store is for wargaming miniatures only. No RPGs and they have no plans to change. I don't know of a comic book store within 50 miles of me. And no, I don't live in Wyoming or Montana. I'm in Pennsylvania. So online is the only real place that I can go or else drive 2 hours to Pittsburgh and hope that they have in what I'm looking for.

Harry Joy · Post by **Harry Joy** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:49 am

Guess I'm a sucker. I always go out of my way to buy from brick and mortar stores, even if I have to special order something. The nice thing is, I've proven to be such a reliable return customer, the two mom and pops I frequent the most give me a little discount. Sometimes.

Notice, I said Mom 'n Pops. If I didn't have some good local privately owned stores to shop, I could see myself giving my money to Amazon instead of Borders and such.

Part of this reflects, I am sure, my twenty-five years in retail, most of that running my own small stores.

Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:07 am

I buy from the local store most of the time - nothing like going into the store and seeing something new sitting on the shelf!

Some of the "Big Ticket" items (i.e. Castle Whiterock, Rappan Athuk Reloaded, etc.) I've purchased through Amazon - saved a good chunk of money that is better spent elsewhere (minis and the like).

Hopefully this summer, when things finally settle down for me, I can seriously look into demo-ing some stuff in my area at the local gaming store!!
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed May 06, 2009 6:27 pm

Amazon has issues. I know the Trolls have wanted reviews of the available products for like ever... that certainly wouldn't hurt.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed May 06, 2009 6:27 pm

I have to admit, if they were better at utilizing Amazon, I probably wouldn't wait until their TLG sales to do my buying. Still, another reason I wait, is to maximize how much of my money the Trolls get. I like the Trolls getting 100% of my cash, rather than having to split it with Amazon, distributors, etc...
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Wed May 06, 2009 6:30 pm

I suppose I *should* do some reviews on Amazon at some point.
M
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Wed May 06, 2009 6:35 pm

Amazon is a great way for a smaller publisher to go broke. Its awesome for the larger companies who can produce the print volume needed. But the discount that Amazon asks for kills a big chunk of the money for the smaller companies.

Best way to help TLG, over all, is to order direct, and to get more people to do the same.
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Wed May 06, 2009 7:27 pm

Treebore wrote:
I have to admit, if they were better at utilizing Amazon, I probably wouldn't wait until their TLG sales to do my buying. Still, another reason I wait, is to maximize how much of my money the Trolls get. I like the Trolls getting 100% of my cash, rather than having to split it with Amazon, distributors, etc...

Dude, send *me* all of your available cash and I will send you stuff.

FULL DISCLOSURE: It won't be TLG stuff and it might have a questionable odor as I stole it from Tom Tullis' booth last year

PS- It's not duct tape.

Relaxo · Post by **Relaxo** » Wed May 06, 2009 7:46 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
Amazon is a great way for a smaller publisher to go broke. Its awesome for the larger companies who can produce the print volume needed. But the discount that Amazon asks for kills a big chunk of the money for the smaller companies.

Best way to help TLG, over all, is to order direct, and to get more people to do the same.

This makes perfect sense.

I'm only thinking of me, however. LOL

I'll do some reviews too, if it will help.

lets get organinzed, people! do Amazon reviews! Good ones!

Frost · Post by **Frost** » Wed May 06, 2009 7:50 pm

I can put up some reviews. Apart from the obvious (getting the positive word out), how does that help TLG?
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papercut · Post by **papercut** » Thu May 07, 2009 1:23 am

I heart Amazon's international shipping.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu May 07, 2009 2:15 am

Frost wrote:
I can put up some reviews. Apart from the obvious (getting the positive word out), how does that help TLG?

Well, hopefully it will get people curious with TLG products to actually buy them. Its essentially word of mouth advertising, just not as effective because its not a friend of yours telling you what you think, but some stranger. However, you might phrase it in such a way that people will identify with and buy it.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Thu May 07, 2009 11:21 am

I think Peter made some good points. The Wal-Mart of the internet, such as it is...imho, at least.

That being said, I would always appreciate another avenue for TLG purchases. Actually, a lot of my family buys their gifts for people using the wishlist system, and I don't want to list TLG stuff if they can't buy it from TLG stock (as opposed to a reseller).

I have one question, though, out of curiosity - what do ratings have to do with anything? I must be missing something.
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Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Thu May 07, 2009 4:31 pm

Actually, Peter explained to me that Amazon has been very hard on his publisher friends. But for TLG has found a good retailer in Amazon. We generally try to get things up there quickly, but sometimes it doesn't work. For instance Towers of Adventure is giving me fits.

But I'm not sure what titles aren't up there, I thought most were, but for some of the more recent items.

Steve
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He who sits on the elephants back

Castle and Crusade Society
troll@trolllord.com

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu May 07, 2009 4:33 pm

Castle Keepers Guide. That has been on pre-order / available status for like, 5 years?
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Fat Dragon Games · Post by **Fat Dragon Games** » Thu May 07, 2009 6:01 pm

Breakdaddy wrote:
FULL DISCLOSURE: It won't be TLG stuff and it might have a questionable odor as I stole it from Tom Tullis' booth last year

I KNEW IT!!!! Vengeance is coming BD, 97 days until gen Con....
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