*GAH* Another Ice Storm

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:35 pm

Here we go again. Thunder ice, slick roads and cold. Exactly to what federal beuracracy do I need to apply for some temporary global warming?
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Plaag · Post by **Plaag** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:17 pm

Odd to not be getting any bad storms this weekend, actual temperatures in the 30's. Everyone getting bad weather though be safe.

ShaneG.

Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:34 pm

Just don't send it our way!! We're still dealing with the junk that came through over the last couple of weeks.

But, as Plaag stated, be safe out there!
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:40 pm

The crazy weather patterns are thanks to global warming.
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:45 pm

Dunno about that Missouri's weather has always been like this.
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Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:31 pm

Treebore wrote:
The crazy weather patterns are thanks to global warming.

Our weather hasn't been crazy this year. Just a good ole butt-kicking winter like we used to have - lots of snow and cold!!
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:12 pm

You need to look at the big picture, not just local stuff. Global Warming is real. Even the President admitted it. Finally.

Global Warming is not one of those things where you want to be able to say you were right when its conclusively proven to everyone. Things will go significantly easier if people move to make preparations now. It will still be ugly, but significantly fewer will suffer and die.
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Plaag · Post by **Plaag** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:44 pm

Around here it has been crazy - snow fall crazy (new records now anytime it snows - previous record was 78-79 season), temperatures thankfully haven't set record cold - those 1800's can keep them. Course talking with some older gentlemen they say winters are not as bad, it used to really start snowing in October (can't recall as a kid to much if it happened then) but now a days its almost like clock work with first significant snow around Thanksgiving week.

ShaneG.

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:52 pm

Climate changes as a naturally occouring cycle mixed with a pole switch, I believe. Al Gore's sky is falling scare tactics I don't.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:23 am

Julian Grimm wrote:
Climate changes as a naturally occouring cycle mixed with a pole switch, I believe. Al Gore's sky is falling scare tactics I don't.

I think that is where many people are confused. The warming is a natural cycle. The key difference is our effect on carbon is speeding up the cycle, and increasing the severity and length of it at its extreme end.

Besides, whether its "natural" or not, its still going to be very rough if the computer simulations are accurate.
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Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:38 am

This week it's global climate change.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:46 pm

I drove through Lee's Summit yesterday. I noticed before (Blue Springs) and after (Kansas City) the skies were clear. While under Lee's Summit it poured freezing rain so fast my windshield froze over and I had to pull over to rescrape it.

Today, same thing (only had to pull over once though) same place. What is up, Lee's Summit?!
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Dragonhelm · Post by **Dragonhelm** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:32 pm

CharlieRock wrote:
I drove through Lee's Summit yesterday. I noticed before (Blue Springs) and after (Kansas City) the skies were clear. While under Lee's Summit it poured freezing rain so fast my windshield froze over and I had to pull over to rescrape it.

Today, same thing (only had to pull over once though) same place. What is up, Lee's Summit?!

Hey, that's where I live!
Lee's Summit is notorious for having slightly different weather patterns than most of the metro area.

Where you from, CharlieRock?
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Aladar · Post by **Aladar** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:42 pm

I am sorry you guys have to deal all that cold! I used to live near Chicago and I don't miss all that white stuff (and ice) at all.

It is supposed to be in the 70s this weekend out here.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:47 pm

Julian Grimm wrote:
Climate changes as a naturally occouring cycle mixed with a pole switch, I believe. Al Gore's sky is falling scare tactics I don't.

That's asinine. Facts, evidence and scientific research has nothing to do with Al Gore. He's just presenting that information to the world.

And yes, global warming is scary. Fools who wish to shrug it off because they don't like the bearer of bad news ~ remain fools.
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:52 pm

I meant that to be Al Gore's as being the face of the scare tactics. As for the facts I have seen too much bandwagon junk science to believe politicos in white lab coats pushing an agenda.

I heard it best on an episode of Penn and Teller's show that cannot be named here: When the tyrants come they'll be wearing lab coats.
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Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:39 pm

Rhuvein wrote:
That's asinine. Facts, evidence and scientific research has nothing to do with Al Gore. He's just presenting that information to the world.

And yes, global warming is scary. Fools who wish to shrug it off because the don't like the bearer of bad news ~ remain fools.

Who's the fool when running down a fool's errand?

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:26 am

Eisenmann wrote:
Who's the fool when running down a fool's errand?

I'm sorry, I don't understand your comment.
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Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:28 am

Julian Grimm wrote:
I meant that to be Al Gore's as being the face of the scare tactics. As for the facts I have seen too much bandwagon junk science to believe politicos in white lab coats pushing an agenda.

I heard it best on an episode of Penn and Teller's show that cannot be named here: When the tyrants come they'll be wearing lab coats.

It'd make a change from shiny boots or funny hats, to be sure.

OK, some unpalatable facts:

1- The climate of the Earth is demonstrably and unarguably changing faster than it has since the last glacial period.

2- Earth's climate is already unstable, and has been since the end of the Pliocene.

3- Despite this, the overwhelming majority of climatologists agree that the current trends are based directly on human interference.

4- The Sun has been ruled out as a cause - in fact, if it has been having an effect, it has been a mitigating one rather than an exacerbating one.

5- As well as global warming, so much CO2 has been added to the atmosphere in the last few decades that it is lowering the pH of the Earth's oceans. The shells of creatures with calcium carbonate skeletons are thinning as a result.

6- The large oil internationals are thgrowing around millions, literally, to find anyone willing to get up on a podium and say that everything is quite normal. Despite this huge cash incentive, see point 3 above.

6- It doesn't actually matter whose fault it is.

7- IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER WHOSE BLOODY FAULT IT IS!

Ahem. Sorry.
This scientist-hate seems to me to be just another case of the rampant anti-intellectualism that is rife in Western society at the moment, coupled with a very real (and understandable) desire to kill the messenger with the bas news and listen to someone, anyone, who will tell us that everything's all right and we don't need to worry.

Anyway, this is the "crappy weather" thread, not the "scientists are evil and lying to us" thread. We already had that one, and this minor threadjack would probably, I think, be best redirected there.
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Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:54 am

An awful lot of certainty for a game forum. And a lot of open minded name calling and insinuation. Interesting indeed.

From fools to science haters.

Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:24 am

I don't know either way.

But I do believe I'm going to have another beer! Leine's Creamy Dark! Enjoy!
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:02 am

Catweazle wrote:
It'd make a change from shiny boots or funny hats, to be sure.

OK, some unpalatable facts:

1- The climate of the Earth is demonstrably and unarguably changing faster than it has since the last glacial period.

2- Earth's climate is already unstable, and has been since the end of the Pliocene.

3- Despite this, the overwhelming majority of climatologists agree that the current trends are based directly on human interference.

4- The Sun has been ruled out as a cause - in fact, if it has been having an effect, it has been a mitigating one rather than an exacerbating one.

5- As well as global warming, so much CO2 has been added to the atmosphere in the last few decades that it is lowering the pH of the Earth's oceans. The shells of creatures with calcium carbonate skeletons are thinning as a result.

6- The large oil internationals are thgrowing around millions, literally, to find anyone willing to get up on a podium and say that everything is quite normal. Despite this huge cash incentive, see point 3 above.

6- It doesn't actually matter whose fault it is.

7- IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER WHOSE BLOODY FAULT IT IS!

Ahem. Sorry.
This scientist-hate seems to me to be just another case of the rampant anti-intellectualism that is rife in Western society at the moment, coupled with a very real (and understandable) desire to kill the messenger with the bas news and listen to someone, anyone, who will tell us that everything's all right and we don't need to worry.

Anyway, this is the "crappy weather" thread, not the "scientists are evil and lying to us" thread. We already had that one, and this minor threadjack would probably, I think, be best redirected there.

While the 'facts' do seem to suggest it exactly how long have we had detailed, accurate records of the weather? When added to the amount of time we haven't and are only giving our best guesses as to what is causing it the truth is WE REALLY DON"Y KNOW. Things like this very well could have happened prior to our records and we would never know it did.

As to anti-intellectualism, the eggheads have had their chance. They've made a mess and march on freedom reducing platforms such as 'public health' and not offending anyone all the while making a bigger mess than before. I say it's time the eggheads step down and let joe sixpack run things for awhile.
Funny how this was just a post about yet another normal swing in big MO's weather with a Tongue in Cheek comment.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:03 am

A few thoughts . . .

The issue isnt Julian Grimm vs. Al Gore, Penn & Teller comics vs. the scientific world, Rhuvein vs. his own foolish self ~ the issue really is twofold:

1. Is there global warming and other environmental changes/erosions occurring that we should be aware of and studying?

2. Are these changes and warming due to nature or human intervention?

To address Q1 global temperature rising, sea level rising, deterioration of the ozone layers, air/water pollution and ice shelf melting has been clearly evidence, seen and documented.

And so the question becomes, should we ignore these events and dismiss them as natural occurrences and continue to study and observe?

Addressing Q2 are cow farts causing these problems or humans? Some have suggested earthly weather cycles.

Is it methane or huge industrial and personal air pollution thats destroying the ozone layer? The amount of pollution released by companies is clearly documented - and it's astounding. Cows have been around for a long time, why suddenly would methane cause a major breakdown in the ozone layer??

[Incidentally, I am by no means blaming just our country for this, so many new or recent industrialized nations have been major contributors. This will only get worse. The Soviet Union and it's government have committed major crimes against nature, and I fear China and the Third World will be next!!]

I dont view this as a political issue, but of course it is. When you have companies like Dupont and yes they make some great products but they are and have been the biggest polluters on the planet . . . for years. Even against popular opinion, legislation, government scrutiny they continue to prevail while supporting a huge lobby in Washington. And there are so many others and people who benefit from the continued disobedience of the environmental laws

The almighty dollar rules the day so many times. Oh and speaking of the dollar, what motivates and is behind the great Penn & Teller?? Helz yeah, they do it for the moneeeeeee! So really, anyone trying to engage in serious political or social debate and mentions them, loses all credibility IMMEDIATELY! Duh.

By the way, just a quick mention of Al Gore . . . I havent seen his movie but have heard good things about it. All my knowledge and opinion on global warming comes from readings from scientific journals, newsprint, science and nature public radio and TV programs, etc.

But, if one were to pick a spokesmen for a serious subject like global warming, I dont think Al Gore is a bad one.

To wit, hes been or is, a:

Senator

House Rep

Winner of the Nobel Peace Prize

Vice President

Harvard Grad (c*m laude)

Visiting professor

Part of an academy award winning documentary film

Vietnam veteran

Holder of several honarary degrees

Parade guest at the St. Patrick's Day celebration in Chicago, where my daughter met and shook hands with him and they exchanged names and pleasantries (and no, this has no influence on my post or opinion of Gore!)

And probably lots more that I dont recall at the moment . . . let me get a link for those interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore

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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:08 am

[Self Moderated]
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:53 am

Dragonhelm wrote:
Where you from, CharlieRock?

Kansas City, Mo.
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Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:24 am

Oh yea? Well, I won the school spelling bee in 6th grade. So there, Rhuvein!

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:57 am

Julian Grimm wrote:
[Self Moderated]

Good boy. You're learning!
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"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:01 am

Eisenmann wrote:
Oh yea? Well, I won the school spelling bee in 6th grade. So there, Rhuvein!

Hmm, uhh . . . let's see ??.

Oh, I have Aunt Bee's Mayberry Cookbook!!

I don't believe that can be topped!!

[That's right Carolina Corn Pone, Briscoe Darlings' Hoot Owl Pie and Bee's Bingo Cherry Salad!!]

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"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:41 am

Rhuvein wrote:
Good boy. You're learning!

I'm just trying not to let my natural gruffness take over in conversations like this.
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Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:57 am

Julian Grimm wrote:
I'm just trying not to let my natural gruffness take over in conversations like this.

Ain't it wunnerful to get patronized on the forum?

Seeing it warms the cockles of my heart.

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GAH Another Ice Storm

GAH Another Ice Storm