Any computer enthusiasts here?

angelius · Post by **angelius** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:54 am

Need a quick computer question answered...

is there any benefit really from going from 4 gigs of RAM to 8 gigs in Vista 64bit?

I game a lot and I love graphic intense games like Crysis, Company of Heroes, Oblivion and soon Age of Conan...

RAM is just so cheap now, 4 gigs for like $120CDN...I'm seriously tempted but if it makes no serious difference...then its all just in my mind.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:02 am

More RAM is always better. Its Windows you should avoid.

pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:29 am

At the very least, avoid Vista.
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Lord Falcon MacGreggor · Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:29 am

According to a friend of mine, . . . . .

If you don't own a MAC, you shouldn't be allowed to own a computer.
Personally, I like being able to do my own upgrades. . . .
As far as ram goes . . . Windows is a memory hog, so the more you have, the more IT uses.
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:32 am

angelius wrote:
Need a quick computer question answered...

is there any benefit really from going from 4 gigs of RAM to 8 gigs in Vista 64bit?

I game a lot and I love graphic intense games like Crysis, Company of Heroes, Oblivion and soon Age of Conan...

RAM is just so cheap now, 4 gigs for like $120CDN...I'm seriously tempted but if it makes no serious difference...then its all just in my mind.

Works fine in my new vista run widget.

Course I got 'ram' as a removable bit via one of of those USB drives. So its 8 gig with the USB drive plugged in.
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rumcove · Post by **rumcove** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:33 am

Serleran and Pactmaster made me laugh, but what they say is true.

TheNewGuy · Post by **TheNewGuy** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:48 am

Asking "Are there any computer enthusiasts here?" is rather like asking "Would anyone here enjoy having some hot woohoo with a sweet, smart person of choice who was totally in love with you?"

In both cases, I expect the answer would be a (deafening) yes.
Regarding computers, the other posters are telling you true. There's an old computer-geek saying "You can never have enough RAM" and it's essentially a true statement -- especially when you're dealing with a program like Windows Vista which is an appallingly shameless resource-hog.

The more RAM you can feed that ravening hellbeast of a cursed OS, the less likely it will be to turn on you.

The other computer-geek saying I've heard for years is, "Whatever Windows claims as its minimum RAM requirement, double it (at least) if you want to prevent headaches". This too, has proven true, in my experience.

Good luck!

The NewGuy

Harry Joy · Post by **Harry Joy** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:50 am

You know, all those posts are the very definition of a thread crap.

More RAM is always better, btw. And Vista is an operating system, no worse than other popular ones - better in some ways, worse in others, noticeably no different in most respects. I was happy with WinME, XP, writing in code back when and I'm happy with Vista. I used Macs once upon a time, and I was happy with them as well. Operating systems rock.

angelius · Post by **angelius** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:17 pm

I guess, I'm trying to figure out if there will actually be any boost to running games if I go to 8 gigs.

On a side note, I guess there's a lot of Windows haters on here. But honestly, I was scared when I went to Vista too with all the hype and what not.

But so far, it has been the best O/S I've seen in a long time. No issues whatsoever (knock on wood!). Performance is great. Could be that I have the SP1 for Vista.

Running a lot of games great, and I found that theres a lot of support for the 64bit vista already. (Printers etc.) So to me the issue is kinda moot. Besides I need it for DX10....
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:20 pm

I don't hate Windows. It's what keeps me working. Without its failures (which are many), I'd be homeless.
That said: I don't like Vista. Too much change for not enough reason. But, that may be the fact I don't use it, and have no real reason to rush out and buy some fancy system just to support the OS.

For games... its your video card you're going to want as the ass-kicker. You can have your 8 GB RAM, but if your video is a 64 MB suckage, you're going to get bottle-necked. Also, might want to consider a dual-processor board.

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:35 pm

In my opinion 4 gigs should be more than enough... Will 8 gigs help? Well it will make a difference down the line and running Vista just gives it more 'overhead' to play with. If you have a multi-core system, extra ram becomes more important.

That said, I agree with Serl and have to ask what kind of graphics card (or cards if you are using an SLI or Crossfire setup). And... if you only have *one* videocard, and are an enthusiast, consider making the leap to a multi-video card setup.

M
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pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:10 pm

Harry Joy wrote:
You know, all those posts are the very definition of a thread crap.

More RAM is always better, btw. And Vista is an operating system, no worse than other popular ones - better in some ways, worse in others, noticeably no different in most respects. I was happy with WinME, XP, writing in code back when and I'm happy with Vista. I used Macs once upon a time, and I was happy with them as well. Operating systems rock.

Remember that one thread Harry, when we were saying the same thing from different perspectives? This isn't like that one.

I have had computers since those dreadful Texas Instruments nightmares of the 80's and not all operating systems rock for one. I do like Macs and have had them, but I just ordered a new Dell XPS 210, Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E6420 (2.13GHZ,1066FSB) with 4MB cache basically because I weaseled a way to buy it interest free, get a 500 gig hard drive with it and the big flat screen digital monitor. After working on a variety of computers with Vista (a hobby really, computer repair) I begged for the XP option. Operating systems do differ. Windows ME was horrific, what a nightmare, I hated that beast and went back to 98. I almost wish I could run 3.11 for workgroups, that was a pretty darned stable Windows with no "blue screen of death".
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seskis281 · Post by **seskis281** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:15 pm

serleran wrote:
I don't hate Windows. It's what keeps me working. Without its failures (which are many), I'd be homeless.
That said: I don't like Vista. Too much change for not enough reason. But, that may be the fact I don't use it, and have no real reason to rush out and buy some fancy system just to support the OS.

For games... its your video card you're going to want as the ass-kicker. You can have your 8 GB RAM, but if your video is a 64 MB suckage, you're going to get bottle-necked. Also, might want to consider a dual-processor board.

My University's IT person has certainly expressed frustration with Vista - the problems with it so far have caused a hold on changing over...

I've heard it referred to as "the New Coke" of OS's.

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danbuter · Post by **danbuter** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:23 pm

I've had lots of good with Vista. Definately fewer virus and spam issues than with XP. And it runs new games great. I don't know anything about 64-bit systems, so I can't really help you with the RAM question. Though I have 2.4 Gig, and no slowdowns. You may want to check if your computer has a maximum readable RAM. I suspect a new one can handle 8 GB pretty well, though.
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Fizz · Post by **Fizz** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:53 pm

I expect you'd see only marginal performance improvements from increasing from 4 to 8 GB. 1GB is considered minimum, and 2 is for `enthusiasts'. I can only see 8 being useful if were running some seriously high end applications.

Have a look here: Anandtech Vista review. They seem to think that 3GB is the sweet spot, or 4GB if you like to multitask a lot.

8GB certainly won't hurt, but i wouldn't expect huge differences in performance, unless you do have some seriously intense applications running.

-Fizz

Harry Joy · Post by **Harry Joy** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:15 am

pactmaster wrote:
...not all operating systems rock for one.

You ever try to run a computer without one? Yep. I thought so. Operating systems rock. And really, as long as someone isn't trying to foist something on me like Linux, I don't really care what system I'm using.

But Windows, and soon - very soon - Vista, is the most universally compatible system out of the box.

pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:37 am

Harry Joy wrote:
You ever try to run a computer without one? Yep. I thought so. Operating systems rock. And really, as long as someone isn't trying to foist something on me like Linux, I don't really care what system I'm using.

But Windows, and soon - very soon - Vista, is the most universally compatible system out of the box.

Yes, the ancient Texas Instrument computers didn't have an operating system, there was just code string you entered into the quite minimal harddrive space so that you only had one thing at a time running. Now that wasn't grand, but I have run a computer without what would be considered an OS.

However, my statement wasn't that all operating systems don't rock but rather that not all operating systems rock. If Windows rocked extremely hard there wouldn't be a new version every two or three years and there wouldn't be a kazillion weaknesses that a bazillion little hackers try exploiting all the time. Some Windows versions are passable/fine/great and some are a royal pain. I still run Windows, but the lure of the Mac calls out from time to time. If I could worm a way to drop $1700 on a Mac in an interest free manner I would.
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Deserve has nothing to do with it, if you think you're entitled. You're not.

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Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.

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angelius · Post by **angelius** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:18 pm

Fizz wrote:
I expect you'd see only marginal performance improvements from increasing from 4 to 8 GB. 1GB is considered minimum, and 2 is for `enthusiasts'. I can only see 8 being useful if were running some seriously high end applications.

Have a look here: Anandtech Vista review. They seem to think that 3GB is the sweet spot, or 4GB if you like to multitask a lot.

8GB certainly won't hurt, but i wouldn't expect huge differences in performance, unless you do have some seriously intense applications running.

-Fizz

Thanks Fizz, that's kinda what I was wondering. If I went to 8 gigs, whether it would simply be overhead or actually useful. Right now I'm using about 33% of my RAM just running vista. (I have 4 gigs)... Just thinking ahead to some of the newer games coming out that demand 2 gigs of RAM or rather recommend... 4 gigs would be either JUST enough or slightly under what they require.

As for the rest of the computer its pretty decent. My Vista score is 5.7 out of 5. So not bad. The highest I've seen is 5.9 so far.

Anyways I was really just wondering if anyone out there can give me some detailed insight into RAM management of vista. As I dont know that much technical detail.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:33 pm

Personally, since the price is low, I would upgrade the RAM. But much depends on your video RAM as Moriarty mentioned above. It's the key for most high resource computer games. Prices should be very cheap for video graphics cards as well.

I can run HL2, Quake IV and Doom III on my old XP box (1.8Ghz), because I have a 256MB video card.

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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:28 pm

Oh, and one thing that makes Vista run faster and use RAM more efficiently, I've noted, is to turn off the HP Adviser until you need it.
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angelius · Post by **angelius** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:34 pm

Rhuvein wrote:
Personally, since the price is low, I would upgrade the RAM. But much depends on your video RAM as Moriarty mentioned above. It's the key for most high resource computer games. Prices should be very cheap for video graphics cards as well.

I can run HL2, Quake IV and Doom III on my old XP box (1.8Ghz), because I have a 256MB video card.

Thanks Rhu, actually I have a Palit 8800GT with 1024mb of RAM.

Really I was talking more technically about Vista rather than how well I can run games. Because I built my rig for gaming specifically.

The link to Anandtech was really helpful by the way! Basically 4 gigs is good but since RAM is so cheap might as well go for 8gigs.

But then I was thinking that instead of 8 gigs, I should really put that money aside and just pick up another 8800GT for SLI.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:42 pm

angelius wrote:
The link to Anandtech was really helpful by the way! Basically 4 gigs is good but since RAM is so cheap might as well go for 8gigs.

But then I was thinking that instead of 8 gigs, I should really put that money aside and just pick up another 8800GT for SLI.

NOW you're talking! By doing that, you'll be (potentially) bumping your video performance to be on par (if not better) than a high end Nvidia 9000-series card.

A good SLI setup makes a significant difference for gaming. Naturally, since Nvidia works on the drivers so much, they end up coding 'profiles' to best run those same games.

For those who only have a single Nvidia GT video card in a system capable of doing SLI, getting a second one down the line is a very cost effective way of upgrading graphics capability. The only thing you'll need to consider is your power supply.

One thing I'm seriously considering doing in the very near future is swapping out my two SLI cards for more powerful ones. I was an early adopter and I have two GT cards from the 6000 series (the 7000 series wasn't out yet and ATI was on top). It would be relatively inexpensive now to get a couple of GT cards from the 7000 series.

However, I could save up and wait another 18 months or so and get myself a completely new rig. Hmm... what to do... what to do...
M
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Harry Joy · Post by **Harry Joy** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:28 am

gideon_thorne wrote:
Oh, and one thing that makes Vista run faster and use RAM more efficiently, I've noted, is to turn off the HP Adviser until you need it.

I'm assuming this is something to do with Hewlett Packard? Is it something anyone might have? Since I have an HP printer, there's a ton of HP stuff I never use on this PC, but I've never been sure what to delete.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:41 am

Harry Joy wrote:
I'm assuming this is something to do with Hewlett Packard? Is it something anyone might have? Since I have an HP printer, there's a ton of HP stuff I never use on this PC, but I've never been sure what to delete.

Yes. It came with the lap top I have. And I didn't say 'delete'. I said, exit out of.
Unless you have a back up disk, deleting anything is a bad idea as my girlfriend recently discovered.
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angelius · Post by **angelius** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:34 pm

moriarty777 wrote:
NOW you're talking! By doing that, you'll be (potentially) bumping your video performance to be on par (if not better) than a high end Nvidia 9000-series card.

A good SLI setup makes a significant difference for gaming. Naturally, since Nvidia works on the drivers so much, they end up coding 'profiles' to best run those same games.

For those who only have a single Nvidia GT video card in a system capable of doing SLI, getting a second one down the line is a very cost effective way of upgrading graphics capability. The only thing you'll need to consider is your power supply.

One thing I'm seriously considering doing in the very near future is swapping out my two SLI cards for more powerful ones. I was an early adopter and I have two GT cards from the 6000 series (the 7000 series wasn't out yet and ATI was on top). It would be relatively inexpensive now to get a couple of GT cards from the 7000 series.

However, I could save up and wait another 18 months or so and get myself a completely new rig. Hmm... what to do... what to do...
M

In a few month the 9800 GX2's might come down in price. Nvidia looks like they are going for the dual video card thing again.

Since I just got my Palit 1024mb I dont think I'm going to upgrade soon to a 9-series. But the 9800 GT that's slated to come out soon might tempt me enough if it's really in the $299 price point!!!
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deimos3428 · Post by **deimos3428** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:18 pm

If price isn't an issue, go for it.

However, there's no earthly reason why you'd need 8 GB of RAM to run a video game. Most of the memory-intensive stuff is being handled by your video card.

What more memory will do is give you a bit of breathing room before you have to take a hard look at what else is running on your machine and chewing up RAM, and clean it up. (But you should do that, anyway.)

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