A new DCC for C&C:

slimykuotoan · Post by **slimykuotoan** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:04 am

http://www.goodman-games.com/5524preview.php

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:12 am

Cool, though I wish it were actually new, and not a conversion.

slimykuotoan · Post by **slimykuotoan** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:18 am

Well, the DCCs are pretty awesome, so a conversion will allow C&Cers to get a taste of how great Goodman's products are.

Yip, strong products they've been.

As the DCCs are now set to be '4E-ified', their only real move is to convert the oldies to C&C, instead of trying to convert the new 'heroclix battle-map styled mods'.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:25 am

Dang, they got that up fast. I just sent em the final layout last night.
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TheNewGuy · Post by **TheNewGuy** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:19 am

Is there a pattern informing which modules get converted to C&C?

I've been a little surprised by some of the choices; it doesn't always seem to be the best-selling DCCs, or the ones with the most praise-buzz ...

TheNewGuy -- who used to review DCCs online until Goodman freaked out at me for not loving one unconditionally. He only loved me for my website-quotable praise, I guess ...
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:36 am

TheNewGuy wrote:
Is there a pattern informing which modules get converted to C&C?

Honestly mate, Ive got no idea.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:49 am

You mean they don't throw all the numbers in a hat and pick them out? Damn!

papercut · Post by **papercut** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:16 am

If it is just a matter of crunching numbers and then converting feats, I don't see why they don't convert all of them and sell them as pdfs. An excel script could do it really easily.

Then again, maybe they want to sell paper copies. You know, it would be cool if they had a subscription model. You get a shiny new/converted paper module in the mail every month. If you want it after the fact you would have to buy the pdf or one with a variant cover. Paper versions could be collectible, and Goodman Games would never have to print overruns (saving them money). Kind of the Dell model.

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:34 am

When a company goes strictly PDF you can count on my money going somewhere else. When I buy something I want something I can hold not something that lives in the ether of my machine.
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papercut · Post by **papercut** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:09 am

Charlie don't surf and Grimm don't buy pdf. Got it!

Paper will always be a viable option, I would guess that their best modules would/should be converted to paper (?), others could be open to other methods of distribution. Last I heard, multiple streams of income are better than one.

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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:02 pm

This is pretty cool... I'll be getting it as soon as I can. I need to stay current with my C&C collecting after all.

M
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:58 pm

Cool, I actually happen to like that module a great deal. I haven't run it yet, but always wanted to. Coolio.

-O
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Ubriago · Post by **Ubriago** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:45 pm

I like PDFs because I can have it right now, but I also like printed copy, and I mean "real" paper copy, not something from my printer. Things from the printer only make 3 or 4 bathroom trips before they start to fall apart. So, things like these, I'd probably end up with both.

I hope it never comes to everything being PDF only.

Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:56 pm

Tt's great news. I have to adit, I am not that into buying pdfs when there is the prospect of a print copy turning up somewhere; I will probably hold fire on this one until I see the lay of the land.
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cuchulainkevin · Post by **cuchulainkevin** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:37 pm

Ubriago wrote:
from the printer only make 3 or 4 bathroom trips before they start to fall apart. .

Uh....why would you use it THAT way? Doesn't it chafe?

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JediOre · Post by **JediOre** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:52 pm

cuchulainkevin wrote:
Uh....why would you use then THAT way? Doesn't it chafe?

LOL!

That is such a wrong image.

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:34 pm

papercut wrote:
Charlie don't surf and Grimm don't buy pdf. Got it!

I think I need to clear one thing up. There are some products that are better in PDF. Take the offerings from http://www.fatdragongames.com/ they are actually more viable as a PDF since you have the option to print what you need and replace the tiles or models that wear out.

Adventures, rule books and source books are something I refuse to buy in pdf. Unless offered in a compilation CD of some kind. And then they are used for reference and player handouts.
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dcs · Post by **dcs** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:58 pm

TheNewGuy wrote:
Is there a pattern informing which modules get converted to C&C?

I think it depends on which modules people volunteer to convert. They were looking for volunteers a couple of years ago . . . maybe an ad in Crusader #1? Is that what I'm remembering?
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papercut · Post by **papercut** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:49 am

Volunteers, nice idea. The writer can get a rub on his resume from a pro product (if he needs it) and perhaps a share of the loot.

Maps are the biggest problem with pdfs, the books are fine- bw printed to bw xeroxed. But then again, I have access to cheap professional printing/binding services in Taiwan.

Can anyone get the exclusive license to print the TSR maps? You could make some nice coin. hehe
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TheNewGuy · Post by **TheNewGuy** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:49 am

Julian Grimm wrote:
Adventures, rule books and source books are something I refuse to buy in pdf. Unless offered in a compilation CD of some kind. And then they are used for reference and player handouts.

Hey Julian,

I used to feel that way myself, so I understand your point of view. However, nowadays, I'm almost completely the opposite. The fact that I've actually followed through on ordering the physical Castles & Crusades rulebooks is a testament to my interest in C&C ...

What changed?

Moving costs, my friend ...

It's one of the weirdnesses of my existence that I move around a lot, and the last two times I moved house, the cost of shipping all my accumulated game books almost frickin' broke me ... seriously, moving and shipping is expensive anyway, but those hardcovers and boxed sets will make you weep when you see the shipping-by-weight charges they require. Painful.

So, I sold most of the stuff I wasn't personally or sentimentally attached to, and used that money to buy PDF replacements of all the things I still wanted.

My physical gaming collection right now comes to about four medium-smallish boxes filled with stuff that is much beloved ...

The rest of my gaming material (hundreds, possibly thousands, of "books") currently fits on 4 DVDs.

Not even remotely suggesting you should see it my way, Julian. Just saying that, sometimes, PDF gaming books can be a good thing. I would've gone broke dragging all those heavy books and boxed sets around after me from city to city ...
TheNewGuy

Plaag · Post by **Plaag** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:17 am

dcs wrote:
I think it depends on which modules people volunteer to convert. They were looking for volunteers a couple of years ago . . . maybe an ad in Crusader #1? Is that what I'm remembering?

Yep, Crusader #1 has the ad.

ShaneG.

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:05 am

TheNewGuy wrote:
Hey Julian,

I used to feel that way myself, so I understand your point of view. However, nowadays, I'm almost completely the opposite. The fact that I've actually followed through on ordering the physical Castles & Crusades rulebooks is a testament to my interest in C&C ...

What changed?

Moving costs, my friend ...

It's one of the weirdnesses of my existence that I move around a lot, and the last two times I moved house, the cost of shipping all my accumulated game books almost frickin' broke me ... seriously, moving and shipping is expensive anyway, but those hardcovers and boxed sets will make you weep when you see the shipping-by-weight charges they require. Painful.

So, I sold most of the stuff I wasn't personally or sentimentally attached to, and used that money to buy PDF replacements of all the things I still wanted.

My physical gaming collection right now comes to about four medium-smallish boxes filled with stuff that is much beloved ...

The rest of my gaming material (hundreds, possibly thousands, of "books") currently fits on 4 DVDs.

Not even remotely suggesting you should see it my way, Julian. Just saying that, sometimes, PDF gaming books can be a good thing. I would've gone broke dragging all those heavy books and boxed sets around after me from city to city ...
TheNewGuy

That's the thing. I'm rooted where I am at. So moving is nothing I hopefully will have to look at in the future. I'm more of a traditionalist in my reading material. I can't enjoy reading by the glow of my computer screen and frankly, after a while, it hurts my eyes.

Also I can't take a PDF in the bathroom with me, read it during a power outage or snuggle up in bed with it for reading before sleep. In order for me to consider actually using PDF beyond archival a reference use someone would have to make a reader that reproduced the feel and enjoyment I get from solid print reading over electronic.

Then there is the long term goal I have of building my own personal library that will be an add on to my house, filled with the books I want to read and enjoy reading.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:53 am

slimykuotoan wrote:
http://www.goodman-games.com/5524preview.php

w00tage 100%

(Damn, I have the d20 version of it already)
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jfall · Post by **jfall** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:18 pm

Not to thread jack... but another nice thing about PDFs is the ability to search it and find what you're looking for quickly. Especially if the book has been poorly laid out OR if it's just enormous.

Example: I'm running Wilderlands of High Fantasy at the moment (the Necromancer reprint...yeah, bummer I know, but I somehow misplaced most of my JG stuff decades ago.) and finding stuff in that print book is a huge headache. Especially if it's "during" a game.

I usually don't like to sit at the table w/ my computer, but now I have a low table that sits next to me, out of sight, that I can quickly type in a word or phrase and find all sorts of crunchy references instantly.

But I'm like you JG.... I LOVE my books. Just pulled down my old AD&D DMG and started going through it again... sigh... I love that book.
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TheNewGuy · Post by **TheNewGuy** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:00 pm

It occurred to me that it might be useful to someone if I actually listed which DCC modules I consider noteworthy, instead of just wondering why they haven't been converted for C&C yet --

(Your mileage may vary, of course)

1. Idylls of the Rat-King -- Goodman's breakthrough DCC product, and that rarity of rarities: a first-level adventure which isn't dull!

2. The Mysterious Tower -- This one HAS been converted to C&C, I know. It's the only one of my favorites which has ... Note that downloadable errata and map corrections are available at the site link.

3. The Blackguard's Revenge -- Yes, yes, the whole "evil paladin leading an army of invading undead" is an archetypal plot which veers dangerously close to the cliche ... but players love this stuff, and they seem to understand the main plot hook immediately.

4. Crypt of the Devil-Lich -- a high-level "deathtrap" dungeon a la Tomb of Horrors, which has the decency to string an actual plot behind the weirdness and chaos. Can be played as normal, or "tournament-style" with pre-made characters. If you're building ongoing plotlines around your current group, I suggest going the pre-made route -- this adventure can be damn lethal.

5. The Sunken Ziggurat -- a Sumerian/Babylonian flavored dungeon crawl which can still integrate easily and well into a standard fantasy rpg campaign, and expects the standard European-esque PCs. Players too should have no trouble, and the "familiar yet different" site can be a nice change of pace.

6. The Adventure Begins -- a collection of 20 short adventures designed for levels 1 and 2. The adventure quality varies, depending on your personal tastes, but it gives you a resource when you want to start a new group of characters from scratch.

Not shilling for Goodman Games here; just thought I'd offer something potentially useful instead of whining vaguely ... how can they convert my favorites to C&C if I never say what my favorites are?

TheNewGuy

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:31 pm

TheNewGuy wrote:
f

Not shilling for Goodman Games here; just thought I'd offer something potentially useful instead of whining vaguely ... how can they convert my favorites to C&C if I never say what my favorites are?

TheNewGuy

Might actually help to tell Joseph as well.
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dkeester · Post by **dkeester** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:38 pm

I frankly would like to see all the 3.x DCCs officially ported to C&C. I really like the DCC modules, but would rather buy a pre-converted module than do the conversion myself. (It is not that hard. I am just lazy like that.)

I realize that like any small publisher, Goodman has limited resources. I do think, however, that this would be a good way to keep a revenue stream going for their existing IP with a fairly low overhead while they focus on creating their new 4e DCC modules. It also gives them a bit of an "out" if 4e is not very lucrative.

I also think that seeing more third party support for C&C will bring a wider audience to C&C and perhaps spur the creation of more original content specifically for C&C by other third parties.

But then again this is probably just wishful thinking on my part.
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TheNewGuy · Post by **TheNewGuy** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:48 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
Might actually help to tell Joseph as well.

Joseph pitched a right fit when I wrote a review of a different DCC adventure which (very respectfully) claimed that said adventure was not all it was promoted to be.

I don't think he wants to hear from me, and I confess, I'm not really interested in talking to him anytime soon.

I don't write harsh reviews -- why waste my time banging on bad products? I'd rather spend my time praising genuinely good ones. But this module (to my mind) really misrepresented itself to potential buyers, and I said so. He went bugf**k, and in a public rebuttal.

All those quotes from me (still) on the Goodman Games website, legitimately praising other Goodman products, apparently counted for nothing. I was only welcome as long as I said universally good things.

The weirdest thing is, my criticism was so careful, and intentionally designed not be insulting or inflammatory. He saw what he wanted to see, I guess. I don't review DCC products any more.

So, somebody else can tell him. It won't be me.

But thanks, Peter, for the suggestion,

TheNewGuy

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:30 pm

I'd be all for a subscription service on the C&C material like they have for the DCC's.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:24 pm

There are a number of posters at the GGames web-forums that ask about more C&C modules. I've posted as much. I've seen Treebore, JediOre (fellow missourian), and a few other names you'd recognize from here. It seems at least one topic a month gets initiated about C&C DCCs.

Or, to put it in other words; Joe Goodman knows we want more.
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A new DCC for C&C:

A new DCC for C&C:

Re: A new DCC for C&C:

Re: A new DCC for C&C: