Semi-rhetorical question: Why are there so many RPG systems?

Thegreenman · Post by **Thegreenman** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:31 am

Why, oh why, does it seem that there are more game systems than actual players?

After a brief google search for "rpg quickstart" I found this webpage: Free RPG List: preview. On it are listed dozens of game systems, most of which I've never heard of before. Why are so many companies and individuals trying to bring YARPGS to market when that market is shrinking or stagnant?

Why does everyone want to reinvent the wheel? Why not just license an existing system?

So many of these systems are so similar it's scary.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:34 am

Thegreenman wrote:
Why does everyone want to reinvent the wheel? Why not just license an existing system?

Because then we wouldn't have gems like C&C.

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:56 am

Some like different mechanics... some people like more crunch and others something lighter. Some people think they can do a better version of a game. Some people just prefer different flavors.

The idea of only one game system for all types of play is a foolish one at best.

M
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Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:01 am

Ownership, preferences, conceit, amusement, idealism, etc... take your pick. Why do so many people have their own house rules?

Game design is fun, and the proliferation of ideas allows for experimentation. I would be surprised and dismayed if there weren't scores of RPGs out there, it would suggest stagnation to me.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:17 am

$$$ (and if you believe that, I have a game or thirty to sell...)

Thegreenman · Post by **Thegreenman** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:44 am

moriarty777 wrote:
The idea of only one game system for all types of play is a foolish one at best.

M

I agree that one size misfits nearly all, but all the disparate systems make for a very segmented player base. Every local player I know (which are few to begin with) prefers/plays/knows a different system.

I guess it's just the nature of modern technology. Today everyone can be a "journalist" (Read: blogger), publisher, or writer. There is no real barrier to entry anymore. Maybe I'm just being a Luddite.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:50 am

Well, technology certainly has its merits, but there have always been many game systems - they just weren;t easily accessible, as you say. For example, when Tunnels and Trolls started, it was a fan-grown system, inspired by OD&D, which was hard for the author to get seeing as he was in the UK and D&D was "an American thing" for some time before Games Workshop (yep, them) started distribution (before there was a TSR UK.) But, aside from that, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of homebrew expansions, supplements, entire rewrites... some of them are very good (I kind of like Men, Beasts, and Gods, for example) and others are just, umm... yeah.

Up with Luddites!

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:54 am

Thegreenman wrote:
I guess it's just the nature of modern technology. Today everyone can be a "journalist" (Read: blogger), publisher, or writer. There is no real barrier to entry anymore. Maybe I'm just being a Luddite.

That I completely agree with and I fear that this leads to a larger margin of hits and misses. I remember fewer games back in the day. The late 80's and early 90's had many styles but seems to be fewer of them. There certainly seems to be a lot more now but, aside from a couple exceptions, it is the older ones that seem to appeal to me the most.

M
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Thegreenman · Post by **Thegreenman** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:03 am

serleran wrote:
Well, technology certainly has its merits, but there have always been many game systems - they just weren;t easily accessible, as you say. For example, when Tunnels and Trolls started, it was a fan-grown system, inspired by OD&D, which was hard for the author to get seeing as he was in the UK and D&D was "an American thing" for some time before Games Workshop (yep, them) started distribution (before there was a TSR UK.) But, aside from that, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of homebrew expansions, supplements, entire rewrites... some of them are very good (I kind of like Men, Beasts, and Gods, for example) and others are just, umm... yeah.

Up with Luddites!

T&T was the first game I actually played ( I had the D&D boxed set but had no idea where to begin to GM) We were TPK'd within 10 minutes.

Fond memories. .

cinderblock · Post by **cinderblock** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:30 am

I personally like reading and learning new systems. It's part of the fun of the new game (another reason I lost interest in 3.x). I get to cherry pick ideas for my games or play the game as written. Looking at the (mechanical) way someone else decided to handle situation X might give me new and different approaches to those same circumstances in agame that I've played for a while. Plus I love that new system smell.

aethelulf22 · Post by **aethelulf22** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:33 am

I guess back in the 80s and 90s it was impossible for creative fans to self produce quality stuff...the adventure or setting or ruleset they wrote might be brilliant but if it's written on notepaper or at best typed up...well, they needed a publisher or RPG company to accept and print it...and I'm guessing people like TSR and Dungeon Magazine were probably inundated. So the majority of creative people just had to settle for writing stuff for themselves and their players knowing full well that it would never see print (unless they were lucky enough for a RPG company to accept it).

adaen · Post by **adaen** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:54 am

cinderblock wrote:
I personally like reading and learning new systems. It's part of the fun of the new game (another reason I lost interest in 3.x). I get to cherry pick ideas for my games or play the game as written. Looking at the (mechanical) way someone else decided to handle situation X might give me new and different approaches to those same circumstances in agame that I've played for a while. Plus I love that new system smell.

I love that new system smell too.
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Dragondaddy · Post by **Dragondaddy** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:02 pm

aethelulf22 wrote:
I guess back in the 80s and 90s it was impossible for creative fans to self produce quality stuff...the adventure or setting or ruleset they wrote might be brilliant but if it's written on notepaper or at best typed up...well, they needed a publisher or RPG company to accept and print it...and I'm guessing people like TSR and Dungeon Magazine were probably inundated. So the majority of creative people just had to settle for writing stuff for themselves and their players knowing full well that it would never see print (unless they were lucky enough for a RPG company to accept it).

It's not the printing that is the problem. It's all about the distribution system. Print 10,000 copies of your game can you sell them all? Where can one buy your game from?

Answer that question, and you too can self-publish. Just remember you need first rate art, and that's expensive. Your game has to be popular, it has to have replay value, and God willing, you should have some additional resources and variants available for your game.

Will you break even if you sell 1,000 copies? 2,000? 5,000?

When do the big $$$ come?

Post by **finarvyn** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:06 pm

Matthew wrote:
Why do so many people have their own house rules?Game design is fun, and the proliferation of ideas allows for experimentation.

This gets my vote.

Heck, I barely get a game home before I'm already thinking about how I can house-rule it. I probably should at least play it first, but I like to experiment with games.
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Galadrin · Post by **Galadrin** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:24 pm

Dragondaddy wrote:
When do the big $$$ come?

To be brutally honest, relative to any other form of gaming, there is basically NEVER any money in roleplaying games. Most every RPG only breaks even. That is why they have a staff of only a dozen or less. There is the occasional exception (WotC probably does all right), but even supposed big names like Black Industry have to close up shop because their owner (Games Workshop) doesn't see much profit from them.

Therefore, RPG companies mainly do it out of love for the game. So... thank you Troll Lord Games!

aethelulf22 · Post by **aethelulf22** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:23 pm

Galadrin wrote:
To be brutally honest, relative to any other form of gaming, there is basically NEVER any money in roleplaying games. Most every RPG only breaks even. That is why they have a staff of only a dozen or less. There is the occasional exception (WotC probably does all right), but even supposed big names like Black Industry have to close up shop because their owner (Games Workshop) doesn't see much profit from them.

Therefore, RPG companies mainly do it out of love for the game. So... thank you Troll Lord Games!

Exactly. And I like that this industry is fan driven not money driven...from the bloke who has his setting and system on lulu.com upwards. If you can actually make a living out of it...well, you have my respect and jealousy. Thankyou all! (Now where do I go to get mine published...?)

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:50 pm

Galadrin wrote:
Therefore, RPG companies mainly do it out of love for the game. So... thank you Troll Lord Games!

*chuckles* Dude.. we're doing a whole lot better than breaking even.

When you have other income, you do it mainly for love of the game, or art for arts sake. The TLG main staff, for the most part, do game design or art as our living. If TLG was doing just 'break even' we'd have shut it down some time ago and gone to find work that pays the bills. [/i]
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:17 pm

Oh, now that's interesting...

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:54 pm

serleran wrote:
Oh, now that's interesting...

Yeah, that is. TLG makes enough money to hire Mark, Steve, and Peter full time. Cool!
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:56 pm

Sure.

I was thinking of something else.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:23 pm

serleran wrote:
Sure.

I was thinking of something else.

Well? What?
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:16 am

Treebore wrote:
Yeah, that is. TLG makes enough money to hire Mark, Steve, and Peter full time. Cool!

Well, Steve hasn't got me 'full time' at TLG yet. I just said I do art full time. I have no other day job like work. Neither does Steve. Not sure about Mark.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:42 am

Quote:
Well? What?

Well, like, umm, can I join?

Though I did recently hear a pleasant rumor. I hope it be true, mates.

Semi-rhetorical question: Why are there so many RPG systems?

Semi-rhetorical question: Why are there so many RPG systems?

Re: Semi-rhetorical question: Why are there so many RPG syst