School.....Makes My Wallet say *Ow*

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:25 pm

Well,it is August and that means it is time to start gearing the kids up for school again. While I do enjoy the upcoming opportunities for having a quiet house, does it really have to cost me so much?

The school clothes and school supplies were enough to give me chest pains, but that's never enough for these schools. Once school actually begins we have the added benefit of seeing the teachers at the classroom doors every day with their hand held out...

"Wednesday is Cheese Appreciation Day! We need $3 to help supply all the kids with yummy, stinky cheese!"
"Oh! Dont forget The third week of the month is Armadillo Awareness Week! We're asking every student to bring 3 T-bone steaks to feed the armadillos at the local shelter!"

Then there is the endless stream of book advertisements which get sent home. Since when did the schools get so commercial?

Bah....

/vent

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:34 pm

Since education funds have, universally, been sliced in half or damn near it.

seskis281 · Post by **seskis281** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:47 pm

Cut in Half?

If only -- funding from Wisconsin for our UW Colleges has dropped by 70% almost in the past 10 years.

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Post by **Fiffergrund** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:05 pm

When I was in 3rd grade, the teachers had their hands out for funding of their next wonderful idea. School budgets weren't the issue then, and they aren't the issue now. The issue is 1) some teachers have stupid ideas and 2) the same teachers usually have the idea that everyone else needs to pay for them.
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Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:10 pm

Around here, I put the blame on the administration and the mis-appropriation of funds. Kind of makes you curious when the school system doesn't want an open audit. Hmm.........
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Post by **finarvyn** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:19 pm

The high school where I teach makes students buy their own textbooks instead of using a state loan program. Now that runs up big bills!
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Post by **Fiffergrund** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:24 pm

finarvyn wrote:
The high school where I teach makes students buy their own textbooks instead of using a state loan program. Now that runs up big bills!

Wow. I can imagine.

Are they better treated by the students than school-owned textbooks?

---

No offense intended, because you teach there, but it sort of sounds to me like someone in the administration or school board is in cahoots with textbook publishers. There's simply no need to require every student to do this, every year.
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Post by **Fiffergrund** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:28 pm

Deogolf wrote:
Around here, I put the blame on the administration and the mis-appropriation of funds. Kind of makes you curious when the school system doesn't want an open audit. Hmm.........

That's probably true everywhere. I read an article the other day about the BIG salaries of administrators and teachers in Chicago - and they have the shortest school day and school year in the country, I believe. They also have about zero accountability for poor performance. Not coincidentally, they also have pretty poor schools.

I wonder what percentage of school administrators or board members have business or accounting degrees?
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:33 pm

Ah, yes, school and money - my favorite discussion!
My wife is a teacher. Down here (in Florida), or at least at the school she teaches at, the finger can be pointed squarely at the administration. The principal at her school promoted herself to "Director," but hired another vice-principal. That ups the total to 4 VPs, I think, plus a Dean, and like 4 counselors. Then they ask my wife to buy most of her own school supplies, and we cross our fingers when it's time for reimbursement. The kids have a school supply list that takes up 3/4 of a side of paper, typed in 12 pt. font.

My 6 year olds school has uniforms (they sell the shirts, and we buy the pants) and they just ask for $50 for the supplies to cover the whole school year, which isn't too bad, IMHO.

Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:49 pm

Fiffergrund wrote:
That's probably true everywhere. I read an article the other day about the BIG salaries of administrators and teachers in Chicago - and they have the shortest school day and school year in the country, I believe. They also have about zero accountability for poor performance. Not coincidentally, they also have pretty poor schools.

I wonder what percentage of school administrators or board members have business or accounting degrees?

I don't mind the teachers getting higher pay - most of them deserve it, they do all the grunt work. Like most occupations, there are some that never should have been teacers and shouldn't be teaching. Heck, that goes with all the different occupations.

It just chafes my a$$ when they keep raising taxes and nothing improves. Always the same old thing, "We don't have any money for programs."...blah, blah, blah. Very frustrating!!
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:59 pm

Yep, when I was a teacher I would definitely point at the incompetent administration and their overly big and fat paychecks. Starting with the principals who would go out to lunch at about 11 AM every Friday and return about 3 PM with blood shot eyes and slurring.
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ssfsx17 · Post by **ssfsx17** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:05 pm

Sounds not too different from the quandary that California is in. No wonder homeschooling is actually more effective than public school in America.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:09 pm

ssfsx17 wrote:
Sounds not too different from the quandary that California is in. No wonder homeschooling is actually more effective than public school in America.

ITs why we Home School. I saw first hand what Middle School and High School are like in America nowadays. No way in Hades we were going to put our kids through that crap.

Besides, our state runs a home school program via the internet, and it is a darn good one. I think the web address is http://www.k12.com/azva/

Yes, I decided to insert a working link. Its available in several states across the US. I know Ohio is one of them because I am trying to convince my brother to enroll his son in it.
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Post by **Fiffergrund** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:30 pm

I look at it this way: even if I'm not formally homeschooling my kids, I'll still need to spend a huge amount of time

1) supplementing what they might have learned with the rest of the information eliminated because of time or budget constraints.

For example, in American History when I was in high school, the teacher was horribly partisan. I won't mention his party affiliation, but he was a member of some rank in the county. He brought voter registration cards as part of his "civics" lesson and then proceeded to watch over each student's shoulder as they were filled out. Oh, and "Independent" wasn't a valid choice in his classroom. He required students to "make a stand."

In any case, his choice of material to cover in the broad topic of "American History" had gaping holes compared to any fair-minded approach. My sister graduated 6 years after me and literally had no idea who wrote the Constitution when I asked her. She damn well thought she knew what happened at Wounded Knee, though.

So, step one is filling in the blanks when teachers (not all, but some) decide to filter what is or is not relevant to teach.

2) contradicting blatant illogic, misinformation, or otherwise uncritical thinking on the part of the teachers

I had a calculus teacher in college who was so completely fried that he was unable to complete his own assigned problems in front of the class. "The Hoover Miracle" was a well known mathematical phenomenon when he couldn't complete the work and just wrote the answer on the board instead.

So, step two is keeping constant vigilance on what my kids are taught and how they are taught it, and ensuring corrections are made before bad information becomes accepted as correct.

3) providing skills that the schools flat out do not teach any longer.

Such as: basic economics, personal finance, civics, logic, debate...while encouraging full pursuit of the arts.

Step three is ensuring my kids get the tools they need to survive and succeed in the real world, as well as rounding out their creative needs.

-----

With all of this in mind, I might as well homeschool and get it done right the first time.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:41 pm

I can't complain about my kids' school as far as curriculum, etc. It's pretty sharp there. My wife and I began homeschooling but our son later decided he wanted to go to public school.

I just think it is a bit ridiculous the things they have to get for "school supplies". I understand notebooks, paper, folders, etc. But when I was a kid we never needed to provide scissors, glue, paste, glitter, kleenex, DRY ERASE MARKERS FOR THE TEACHER!!!!!!!! Between the 2 kids we have a list of completely inane items to pick up that schools USED TO supply.

I do have a feeling we'll be discussing homeschooling again later this year though. Near the end of last year the principal was attempting to make us cut my son's hair.

concobar · Post by **concobar** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:36 pm

when you have a group of people with the ability to vote for their own raises this is what happens.

where I live in central florida our whole government is ran like this. we have a department head who has a few assistants and one of his assistants has a assistant ect ect ect. government corruption at its finest.

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:41 pm

concobar wrote:
when you have a group of people with the ability to vote for their own raises this is what happens.

where I live in central florida our whole government is ran like this. we have a department head who has a few assistants and one of his assistants has a assistant ect ect ect. government corruption at its finest.

I hear ya, concobar...I live in Central Florida, too!

dachda · Post by **dachda** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:24 pm

I'd like to throw out a few thoughts. When, generally, funding for schools is dropping across the country, why are we surprised when the best and the brightest opt not to teach or administrate our school systems? But instead take financially lucrative jobs in the corporate sector? Why when our college students graduate with more and more school loan debt are we surprised when the best opt not to go to low-paying teaching jobs? The anti-tax crowd has done a marvelous job of convincing Americans that taxes are evil, and then are surprised that governmental services are struggling with inadequate funding and failure to attract the best workers cause the salaries suck. Ask any teacher you know how many hours per year they work (don't give me the summers off line, the teachers I know work so many hours during the school year, they still average over 40 hours a week for the whole year) and what their salary is. Ask why wouldn't teachers with such low salaries and insane work weeks, and now having to purchase their own school supplies, quit within five years. Homeschooling is not an answer, except for those parents motivated enough and more importantly educated enough and having enough free time to teach their own kids. How many parents do you know with only one of them working? How do most parents have time to homeschool?

To me the problem is the last thirty years of cutting taxes while ignoring the effect that has on services all Americans need, and not just teaching. Look at the condition of our roads and bridges, our levees, and other infrastructure. To me its a question of people wanting to pay less tax, yet wanting better/greater services in spite of that. Just doesn't work that way. You truly can't have your cake and eat it too, in this case.

Okay, I'm ready. Hit me with those replies.
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Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:33 pm

dachda wrote:
I'd like to throw out a few thoughts. When, generally, funding for schools is dropping across the country, why are we surprised when the best and the brightest opt not to teach or administrate our school systems? But instead take financially lucrative jobs in the corporate sector? Why when our college students graduate with more and more school loan debt are we surprised when the best opt not to go to low-paying teaching jobs? The anti-tax crowd has done a marvelous job of convincing Americans that taxes are evil, and then are surprised that governmental services are struggling with inadequate funding and failure to attract the best workers cause the salaries suck. Ask any teacher you know how many hours per year they work (don't give me the summers off line, the teachers I know work so many hours during the school year, they still average over 40 hours a week for the whole year) and what their salary is. Ask why wouldn't teachers with such low salaries and insane work weeks, and now having to purchase their own school supplies, quit within five years. Homeschooling is not an answer, except for those parents motivated enough and more importantly educated enough and having enough free time to teach their own kids. How many parents do you know with only one of them working? How do most parents have time to homeschool?

To me the problem is the last thirty years of cutting taxes while ignoring the effect that has on services all Americans need, and not just teaching. Look at the condition of our roads and bridges, our levees, and other infrastructure. To me its a question of people wanting to pay less tax, yet wanting better/greater services in spite of that. Just doesn't work that way. You truly can't have your cake and eat it too, in this case.

Okay, I'm ready. Hit me with those replies.

I'm sorry, I don't buy it! Not for one bit!

I live in one of the five highest taxed States in the Union, Wisconsin. Seems like we get taxed for everything, doesn't matter what it is. I think there is a load of BS programs that should be cut and gut some of the really unnecessary administrative areas, and really hold the government officials responsible for their ungodly spending habits. Every year it's the same thing, we don't have enough money. I don't recall my parents complaining about all this when we were kids. I don't remember teachers passing around that hat for extra reams of paper, facial tissues, or anything else for that matter. Our roads are in sore need of repair - where's all the tax money for it, beats me. Local government doesn't seem to know either! Got me stumped!
Raising taxes isn't the solution, never was. Only adds to the corruption.
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dachda · Post by **dachda** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:38 pm

Deogolf wrote:
I'm sorry, I don't buy it! Not for one bit!

I live in one of the five highest taxed States in the Union, Wisconsin. Seems like we get taxed for everything, doesn't matter what it is. I think there is a load of BS programs that should be cut and gut some of the really unnecessary administrative areas, and really hold the government officials responsible for their ungodly spending habits. Every year it's the same thing, we don't have enough money. I don't recall my parents complaining about all this when we were kids. I don't remember teachers passing around that hat for extra reams of paper, facial tissues, or anything else for that matter. Our roads are in sore need of repair - where's all the tax money for it, beats me. Local government doesn't seem to know either! Got me stumped!
Raising taxes isn't the solution, never was. Only adds to the corruption.

Okay, I don't know the circumstances in every place. I do know that Oregon's problems do stem from the limits placed on property taxes a decade or so ago. But if the spending habits of your school district are poor, perhaps joingin the PTA or better yet running for the local school board are your best bets for solutions. As a voting member of the school board, you will be able to create the accountability on spending you want. I totally agree that all spending, whether in government or the corporate world needs accountability. I've a friend who discovered that running for school board is doable, she simply went door to door and introduced herself to the voters. Come voting day, hers was the name they recognized. She won first time, never had been in office before either.
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Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:58 pm

Well, that might work. The only problem with that is that the Milwaukee Public School administration is dead-set against having an audit of their books, they have for years. The only reason I can think of is that they are hiding something. What that is is anyone's guess, but I think you get the drift.

I'm one that thinks that both sides of the government fence (major parties, that is) is in sore need of an a$$-kicking. Just way too much BS going on! Just open the papers and you see it almost every day.

Maybe Thomas Jefferson wasn't too far of the mark - a revolution every 20 years maybe isn't a bad thing! A little radical, but he had a point.
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School.....Makes My Wallet say Ow

School.....Makes My Wallet say Ow