Hi there,
I need to make a non-spell casting, non-martial artist, european style monk.
Somethign Friar like, but more about knowledge and the sharing and gathering of information.
I have NO idea how to build a class or how to make this class even useful.
Can anyon help me?
If there are any who would be willing to hash it out with me I will psot more information about what it is I am looking for.
Thanks
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Monk - Non Oriental, Non Spellcasting. Help?
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gideon_thorne
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Re: Monk - Non Oriental, Non Spellcasting. Help?
AslanC wrote:
Hi there,
I need to make a non-spell casting, non-martial artist, european style monk.
Somethign Friar like, but more about knowledge and the sharing and gathering of information.
I have NO idea how to build a class or how to make this class even useful.
Can anyon help me?
If there are any who would be willing to hash it out with me I will psot more information about what it is I am looking for.
Thanks
In this case, your not going to get much of a useful class. What your looking for is a cloistered cleric, and they didn't spend a whole lot of time adventuring.
What it boils down too is an NPC with a few levels of bonus check on their intelligence.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach
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Lord Dynel
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gideon_thorne wrote:
In this case, your not going to get much of a useful class. What your looking for is a cloistered cleric, and they didn't spend a whole lot of time adventuring.
I must agree with this. The only thing that I could even come close to envisioning as a playable class would be something akin to William of Baskerville from The Name of the Rose.
In which case, to put a fantastic spin on it, I'd give them a limited spell list (maybe only progressing only to 4th level or so) primarily divination-like spells with the added ability to read any type of magical scroll (arcane and divine), not to mention an ability to scribe scrolls, some ability at deciphering script, maybe a bardic knowledge/lore ability. If you wanted an investigative type of monk, also add some search, listen, and spot class abilities.
That should be a good start.
LD's C&C creations - CL Checker, a witch class, the half-ogre, skills, and 0-level rules
Troll Lord wrote:Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.
The Monks of Kalin
Kalin was essentially the librarian of the Gods. She was known as the Watcher. She and her monks, record everything they can about the world and the times they live in as well as exploring to find lost knowledge.
In the world they live in, they (the monks) are considered completely neutral in all politics. In wars, there can often be found monks working for both armies, providing services as medics, cooks, equipment bearers just so that they may be present to record events.
Many nobles send their children to be educated at Kalin Monestaries or hire monks to come to their homes and teach in house.
I can see them having the ability to cast wizzard scrolls, perhaps as a mage 2 levels lower.
Beyond that I am open to discussion
Does this help?
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Kalin was essentially the librarian of the Gods. She was known as the Watcher. She and her monks, record everything they can about the world and the times they live in as well as exploring to find lost knowledge.
In the world they live in, they (the monks) are considered completely neutral in all politics. In wars, there can often be found monks working for both armies, providing services as medics, cooks, equipment bearers just so that they may be present to record events.
Many nobles send their children to be educated at Kalin Monestaries or hire monks to come to their homes and teach in house.
I can see them having the ability to cast wizzard scrolls, perhaps as a mage 2 levels lower.
Beyond that I am open to discussion
Does this help?
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gideon_thorne
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AslanC wrote:
Beyond that I am open to discussion
Does this help?
I can see where your going, but in a typical sword and sorcery game, there's only one name for a class like that. "Appetizer"
In a more role playing mystery environment, confined to a given geography like a city, or the whole 'Trapped in a mansion, who done it' kind of deal, they might fit. But not much anywhere else.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach
I fully understand that, but I would prefer to find a way to make it work, since the player really loved the idea of these monks.
So with that in mind, I need to find ways to make them useful.
Knowledge is going to be a big part of it. Also my games are less dungeon delves than standard. They are more political and role-playing intensive.
So ways to make the class useful:
1] Spell casting from scrolls (wizard spells)
2] Extensive knowledge (great for figuring out puzzles, politics, area knowledge, etc.)
3] Non-magical medicine (healing, herbalisim, etc)
4] Neutral passage (the freedom to travel most anywhere without restriction due to tradition)
Any other ideas?
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So with that in mind, I need to find ways to make them useful.
Knowledge is going to be a big part of it. Also my games are less dungeon delves than standard. They are more political and role-playing intensive.
So ways to make the class useful:
1] Spell casting from scrolls (wizard spells)
2] Extensive knowledge (great for figuring out puzzles, politics, area knowledge, etc.)
3] Non-magical medicine (healing, herbalisim, etc)
4] Neutral passage (the freedom to travel most anywhere without restriction due to tradition)
Any other ideas?
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Also I don't mind them having some fighting skills, probably with a staff in the end.
These guys would also have a vow of poverty, since worldy possessions are nothing compared to knowledge.
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These guys would also have a vow of poverty, since worldy possessions are nothing compared to knowledge.
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Lord Dynel
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AsianC wrote:
Non-magical medicine (healing, herbalisim, etc)
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not jiving with this too well. Comes off as too "naturey." I'd say that if you go with a knowledge-based character, leave to healing out, IMHO.
LD's C&C creations - CL Checker, a witch class, the half-ogre, skills, and 0-level rules
Troll Lord wrote:Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.
Lord Dynel wrote:
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not jiving with this too well. Comes off as too "naturey." I'd say that if you go with a knowledge-based character, leave to healing out, IMHO.
Well I can see your point, but certainly monks all about knowledge would have learned the benefits of healing herbs and balms, etc in their time. Certainly without a church over their head branding such things as pagan or heathen.
In the end we are talking about bone setting, wound cleaning and maybe brewing a nice tea from willow bark to ease pain.
I am not talking full on herbalist, just a dabbler perhaps.
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Go0gleplex
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while the others are entirely correct, a class of this type is not going to be super useful, I also see that there are some pretty interesting opportunities here.
Let's focus on the description of their job....recorders and librarians. Field researchers...
so they have HD d6, only slightly more active than your normal wizard...I mean they do haul books around and battlefield medics...this would also imply at least a marginal measure of self defense, however not really martial in nature. This screams self-defense class to me....or something along the lines of escrima. The sticks are pretty common and can be used both offensively and defensively...readily rivaling a swordsman's skill (just ask the spanish about that one in the PI) by a practiced user. BtH level -2 (?)... Armor, probably nothing heavier than leather if that.
The escrima abilities can be advanced as skills, so at first level they might have dual weapon specialized. Only with their little sticks. If that seems too much, take it back a notch and use a Tonfa which can also be a mean little weapon. One ability with these could be to gain an AC bonus much like that for a shield as they advance.
But why adventure...well...I keep hearing about cross class skills. Here's a person that reads and reads and reads and watches and watches and watches....Learns how to find and disarm traps or open locks....learns about healing herbs and salves....learns about how magical items work....learns about stonework and animals...diplomacy and influencing crowds... Knowledge is power when used correctly after all.
Essentially....they learn! So at first level, the class would pick one skill from a list to have learned. At every other or every third level (and costs for books, researching, practicing, etc) they can learn another skill. Though they make their tests at Level -1 rather than adding their level for success since they are "all book, little practical use".
Anyways...some food for thought.
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The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.
Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-
High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society
Let's focus on the description of their job....recorders and librarians. Field researchers...
so they have HD d6, only slightly more active than your normal wizard...I mean they do haul books around and battlefield medics...this would also imply at least a marginal measure of self defense, however not really martial in nature. This screams self-defense class to me....or something along the lines of escrima. The sticks are pretty common and can be used both offensively and defensively...readily rivaling a swordsman's skill (just ask the spanish about that one in the PI) by a practiced user. BtH level -2 (?)... Armor, probably nothing heavier than leather if that.
The escrima abilities can be advanced as skills, so at first level they might have dual weapon specialized. Only with their little sticks. If that seems too much, take it back a notch and use a Tonfa which can also be a mean little weapon. One ability with these could be to gain an AC bonus much like that for a shield as they advance.
But why adventure...well...I keep hearing about cross class skills. Here's a person that reads and reads and reads and watches and watches and watches....Learns how to find and disarm traps or open locks....learns about healing herbs and salves....learns about how magical items work....learns about stonework and animals...diplomacy and influencing crowds... Knowledge is power when used correctly after all.
Essentially....they learn! So at first level, the class would pick one skill from a list to have learned. At every other or every third level (and costs for books, researching, practicing, etc) they can learn another skill. Though they make their tests at Level -1 rather than adding their level for success since they are "all book, little practical use".
Anyways...some food for thought.
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The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.
Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-
High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society
"Rolling dice and killing characters since September 1976."
"Author of Wardogs! and Contributor to Iron Stars and Starmada-Admiralty ed."
"Certified crazy since 2009."
"Author of Wardogs! and Contributor to Iron Stars and Starmada-Admiralty ed."
"Certified crazy since 2009."
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gideon_thorne
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*chuckles* Ok, here's an oddball idea that could make the class really useful, (not to mention frightening) and has a logical reasoning.
Perhaps these wandering philosophers are ground in the real due to their studies, and each level they get to add 1 in Spell Resistance. This, because, magic and the like breaks 'normal' laws, and so these wandering philosophers get a certain power to disbelieve in magic. I'm thinking of something akin to that priestly fellow from Eric the Viking. ^_^
If you want to go mundane, make them really mundane. A student of order where magic and that defined as 'unreal' does not truly exist. An Anti Mage. ^_^
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
Perhaps these wandering philosophers are ground in the real due to their studies, and each level they get to add 1 in Spell Resistance. This, because, magic and the like breaks 'normal' laws, and so these wandering philosophers get a certain power to disbelieve in magic. I'm thinking of something akin to that priestly fellow from Eric the Viking. ^_^
If you want to go mundane, make them really mundane. A student of order where magic and that defined as 'unreal' does not truly exist. An Anti Mage. ^_^
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach
I like the idea of stick fighting, could it work with a quarterstaff size instead? Especially that AC bonus thing.
As to why they adventure, to be part of history and record it as it happens.
The way I see it is.
Youth/Teen years are spent studying the basics at a monestary or as an assitant to a wandering monk (ala Christian Slater in Name of the Rose)
Young adult to middle age they travel the world, gathering information, spreading newsd fom village to village, acting as messengers, recording improtant events, etc.
Elder years on they spend at a monestary transcribing the scrolls, books and other information brought in my the wandering Watcher Monks.
So yes skills would be a good way to go with that.
As for the real vs unreal of magic, while I LOVED the priest in Eric the Viking, his lack of seeing was based on his faith not accepting pagan things. Not sure exactly that could translate to a monastic order that is about recording and gathering all knowledge.
That said if we could figure out a way that would be interesting.
What if they got illusion resistence? Sort of a halfway meeting no?
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As to why they adventure, to be part of history and record it as it happens.
The way I see it is.
Youth/Teen years are spent studying the basics at a monestary or as an assitant to a wandering monk (ala Christian Slater in Name of the Rose)
Young adult to middle age they travel the world, gathering information, spreading newsd fom village to village, acting as messengers, recording improtant events, etc.
Elder years on they spend at a monestary transcribing the scrolls, books and other information brought in my the wandering Watcher Monks.
So yes skills would be a good way to go with that.
As for the real vs unreal of magic, while I LOVED the priest in Eric the Viking, his lack of seeing was based on his faith not accepting pagan things. Not sure exactly that could translate to a monastic order that is about recording and gathering all knowledge.
That said if we could figure out a way that would be interesting.
What if they got illusion resistence? Sort of a halfway meeting no?
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Go0gleplex
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well...my daughter wiped out my lengthy replay.
Escrima has one stick blocking while the other strikes...or both strike. Though I admit my knowledge is limited to just what I learned of the beginning four forms years ago.
Tonfa can spin fast...both methods are very very fast striking and recovering. Watching my escrima instructor go at it full speed was like watching a man put their head into a high speed fan instead of a fight. That's what allows for the AC bonus.
The bo stick is a short staff...about 3-4 feet if I remember correctly from reading. Never seen one or in use so not sure. I don't think it can be used in the same manner as the above though.
another thing with the escrima, and why I was learning it, was that you can use long knives or short blades much the same way. (Watch Steel Dawn...the main bad guy enforcer uses these.) But that might be a bit more martial than you want.
I like that Anti-mage idea Gideon had... Though Gideon missed something with the 'laws of the universe' bit...PHYSICISTS!!! *LOL* They create the Holy Hand Grenade at 12th level.
At low levels they have a better chance than normal of solving riddles, translating old writings, and simply figuring out what things might be based on the 'medieaval properties inherent to the materials it is constructed from.
The Upper mid to higher levels, they get the chance to learn a few cross-classed skills and lore type stuff.
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.
Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-
High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society
Escrima has one stick blocking while the other strikes...or both strike. Though I admit my knowledge is limited to just what I learned of the beginning four forms years ago.
Tonfa can spin fast...both methods are very very fast striking and recovering. Watching my escrima instructor go at it full speed was like watching a man put their head into a high speed fan instead of a fight. That's what allows for the AC bonus.
The bo stick is a short staff...about 3-4 feet if I remember correctly from reading. Never seen one or in use so not sure. I don't think it can be used in the same manner as the above though.
another thing with the escrima, and why I was learning it, was that you can use long knives or short blades much the same way. (Watch Steel Dawn...the main bad guy enforcer uses these.) But that might be a bit more martial than you want.
I like that Anti-mage idea Gideon had... Though Gideon missed something with the 'laws of the universe' bit...PHYSICISTS!!! *LOL* They create the Holy Hand Grenade at 12th level.
At low levels they have a better chance than normal of solving riddles, translating old writings, and simply figuring out what things might be based on the 'medieaval properties inherent to the materials it is constructed from.
The Upper mid to higher levels, they get the chance to learn a few cross-classed skills and lore type stuff.
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.
Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-
High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society
"Rolling dice and killing characters since September 1976."
"Author of Wardogs! and Contributor to Iron Stars and Starmada-Admiralty ed."
"Certified crazy since 2009."
"Author of Wardogs! and Contributor to Iron Stars and Starmada-Admiralty ed."
"Certified crazy since 2009."
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gideon_thorne
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Go0gleplex wrote:
I like that Anti-mage idea Gideon had... Though Gideon missed something with the 'laws of the universe' bit...PHYSICISTS!!! *LOL* They create the Holy Hand Grenade at 12th level.
Well, thats kind of the direction I was leaning. Science and reason over magic. Hey, it was just a wild idea I pulled out of my ass. Figured it might take a bit for the new odor to waft away. ^_^
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach
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Go0gleplex
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the Thomas Covenant series springs to mind....as does the animated "Flight of Dragons" where the guy from the world of science rationalizes away the power of magic.
starts out with a save bonus, then the SR...which expands to an anti-magic area of effect like the old paladin "protection from evil 10'R". Curses, magic items, undead...phfffft! gone in with a simple recitation of Boils Law.
I can see the SR ability for another reason...simply knowing what is coming at you and what its counters are and such. At the least, a save bonus.
Odor? What odor? That's not my daughters diaper?!?
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.
Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-
High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society
starts out with a save bonus, then the SR...which expands to an anti-magic area of effect like the old paladin "protection from evil 10'R". Curses, magic items, undead...phfffft! gone in with a simple recitation of Boils Law.
I can see the SR ability for another reason...simply knowing what is coming at you and what its counters are and such. At the least, a save bonus.
Odor? What odor? That's not my daughters diaper?!?
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.
Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-
High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society
"Rolling dice and killing characters since September 1976."
"Author of Wardogs! and Contributor to Iron Stars and Starmada-Admiralty ed."
"Certified crazy since 2009."
"Author of Wardogs! and Contributor to Iron Stars and Starmada-Admiralty ed."
"Certified crazy since 2009."
For a monk that doesn't cast spells and doesn't practice martial arts, try this:
The Medieval Murder Mysteries RPG
This supplement uses C&C rules. It covers character classes for a medieval setting inspired by European Middle Ages, without magic. It has classes that would fit what you are searching for.
_________________
Homebrews Wiki a list of campaign settings on the web.
The Medieval Murder Mysteries RPG
This supplement uses C&C rules. It covers character classes for a medieval setting inspired by European Middle Ages, without magic. It has classes that would fit what you are searching for.
_________________
Homebrews Wiki a list of campaign settings on the web.
gideon_thorne wrote:
*chuckles* Ok, here's an oddball idea that could make the class really useful, (not to mention frightening) and has a logical reasoning.
Perhaps these wandering philosophers are ground in the real due to their studies, and each level they get to add 1 in Spell Resistance. This, because, magic and the like breaks 'normal' laws, and so these wandering philosophers get a certain power to disbelieve in magic. I'm thinking of something akin to that priestly fellow from Eric the Viking. ^_^
If you want to go mundane, make them really mundane. A student of order where magic and that defined as 'unreal' does not truly exist. An Anti Mage. ^_^
I actually have a Philosopher class in my campaign, and a player who's currently running one. They are similar to clerics, but their spell list is focused on Divinations (which they explain as being produced by superior reasoning). When they "Speak With Dead" for example, I explain it as them analyzing subtle clues on and around the body to create a narrative, sort of like a medieval CSI. They can "Debunk" undead rather than "turn" them - if successful, the PCs realize that there were never any ghosts there to begin with, or what they thought were zombies were just corpses that caused the PCs to panic and hurt themselves in the resulting chaos. Philosophers can never benefit from Divine magic from a caster lower in Level than themselves, beacuse they don't believe in the supernatural. They also get the ability to resist magic that changes emotions (due to their "philosophical calm"), and "skeptic" bonus on their saves versus illusions.
Daniel James Hanley
Creator of Ghastly Affair, "The Gothic Game of Romantic Horror".
Player's Manual Now Available on DriveThruRPG and Amazon
Reader discretion is advised.
Creator of Ghastly Affair, "The Gothic Game of Romantic Horror".
Player's Manual Now Available on DriveThruRPG and Amazon
Reader discretion is advised.