4.5e? Its this ball.

Morgrus · Post by **Morgrus** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:01 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eljUE5K2DAw
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Plaag · Post by **Plaag** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:56 pm

Wonder if USA would become #1 in math if they taught it that way?

ShaneG.

Morgrus · Post by **Morgrus** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:08 pm

Plaag wrote:
Wonder if USA would become #1 in math if they taught it that way?

ShaneG.

With the cthulhu aided lessons it just might. I want that stuffy now, it's so cute.
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Taranthyll · Post by **Taranthyll** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:43 pm

What really shocked me about this video was seeing how young the Senior Brand Manager and Lead Developer of D&D are. These guys look like they just got out of high school - no wonder 4E feels like a computer game; this edition appears to have been designed by a new generation for a new generation.

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:04 pm

Yeah theyre not old guys like us... er me.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:18 pm

Taranthyll wrote:
What really shocked me about this video was seeing how young the Senior Brand Manager and Lead Developer of D&D are. These guys look like they just got out of high school - no wonder 4E feels like a computer game; this edition appears to have been designed by a new generation for a new generation.

Gotta aim at your market. Common sense for a big corporation.
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Luther · Post by **Luther** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:27 pm

I didn't really care for the 'Let's teach children about summoning daemons' bit. For a game that's tryign to be more generally market friendly, that is a sure way to turn off parents, joke or not.

But then, this whole edition is full of these dichotomies. No assassins and half-orcs, because that would give off the wrong message and no one wants to think about how these things work or come about, but half-breed daemons that look like Satan's bastard children as a race? Sure! A class based around selling your soul for power? That roxxorz!1! If I didn't know any better, I would think that WotC was cynically looking at the furor of the eighties and seeing it as a good way to increase brand awareness and sales.

As for the youth of the designers, I'm betting that the reason is the same as it is across the gaming industry: you can't pay adults with families and responsibility the piddling wages you can pay to a fanboi gamer who will practically work for free and live in a hovel just to work on the game of his dreams and spend all day playing RPGs...

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:31 pm

Luther wrote:
As for the youth of the designers, I'm betting that the reason is the same as it is across the gaming industry: you can't pay adults with families and responsibility the piddling wages you can pay to a fanboi gamer who will practically work for free and live in a hovel just to work on the game of his dreams and spend all day playing RPGs...

Actually, WOTC pay's rather well. Hence it being the gold to try for in the rpg Olympics. At least for those interested in such things.
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cuchulainkevin · Post by **cuchulainkevin** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:56 pm

4e marketing is terrible. "I know, let's go viral on youtube and mock the knocks against 4e"

What happened to actually promoting what your game is good at?

What's next "4E...at least .5 FUNNER than 3.5"
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cuchulainkevin · Post by **cuchulainkevin** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:01 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
Actually, WOTC pay's rather well. Hence it being the gold to try for in the rpg Olympics. At least for those interested in such things.

Yes, but Peter, you still HAVE YOUR SOUL....

Not that you wouldn't rather have an extra 50K...
Seriously though, WOTC also seems to lay-off creative folks on a fairly regular basis...not sure I would look there if I was building a career- then again, I'm a teacher with tenure...I tend to be pretty conservative/low-risk as far as work goes.
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Taranthyll · Post by **Taranthyll** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:09 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
Gotta aim at your market. Common sense for a big corporation.

Yeah, I guess. I'm just having a hard time coming to grips with not being the market anymore. I got used to being in the demographic that advertisers pandered to - you know, automobile and Pepsi commercials that played Flock of Seagulls songs just to appeal to my age group. Its hard to get used to not being in the key marketing demographic anymore.

Nowadays the only advertisers that market to me are Cyalis, life insurance (if you're between the ages of 40 and 75, and likely to drop dead soon, your acceptance is guaranteed), and of course estate planning and funeral service companies.

This isn't making my mid-life crisis any easier to bear.

Morgrus · Post by **Morgrus** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:15 pm

[quote="Luther"]I didn't really care for the 'Let's teach children about summoning daemons' bit. For a game that's tryign to be more generally market friendly, that is a sure way to turn off parents, joke or not.[quote="Luther"]

I have to agree. I grew up in a conservative town and due to the negative myths of d&d I had to keep the fact that I played lowkey. We once got booted from the library due to the fact the game was "just not right".

We need more Kinde flayers & crayon crawlers to help out our image. Or maybe just leeroy
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Turanil · Post by **Turanil** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:16 pm

cuchulainkevin wrote:
4e marketing is terrible.

4e too.

cuchulainkevin wrote:
What happened to actually promoting what your game is good at?

In 4e's case, it's maybe a good idea not to use that method...
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GreyLord · Post by **GreyLord** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:19 pm

It sure looks like that is a fan film that is joking about WotC's take on 4e.

Not a serious film...maybe I missed the sarcasm in this thread or something...

Morgrus · Post by **Morgrus** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:25 pm

doh. double post,edit. I was under the impression it was just a fan joke too.
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:35 pm

Taranthyll wrote:
Yeah, I guess. I'm just having a hard time coming to grips with not being the market anymore.

*chuckles* I've never been anyones market or demographic. Too cussed independent.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:50 pm

I dont know any of those currect WOTC D&D development people, but they do look quite young. It order to have the best approach to creatively making a better product, you should have somebody in there who knows and understand all of the previous editions of the game (at least in my humble opinion). Those guys look like they have never even played AD&D, Basic D&D, OD&D, etc.

Whatever, whatever version it is up to now still sucks rocks and I think it shows in all aspects of marketing, implementation and actual play.

-O
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Taranthyll · Post by **Taranthyll** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:05 pm

Omote wrote:
I dont know any of those currect WOTC D&D development people, but they do look quite young. It order to have the best approach to creatively making a better product, you should have somebody in there who knows and understand all of the previous editions of the game (at least in my humble opinion). Those guys look like they have never even played AD&D, Basic D&D, OD&D, etc.

No, I think they probably grew up on 3rd Ed. And this may be why 4E doesn't feel anything like D&D to me. I think WotC is definitely aiming at a younger, hipper audience.

I was thinking that when I was their age I could not possibly have had the experience or maturity to handle developing a product line this huge. I get this mental image of myself at the age of 20 showing up at TSR and asking to be the brand manager of D&D and having everyone in the place laugh their heads off. I might have been able to pull off a job as junior copy editor at that age, but lead developer? Not a chance.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:20 pm

Taranthyll wrote:
I was thinking that when I was their age I could not possibly have had the experience or maturity to handle developing a product line this huge. I get this mental image of myself at the age of 20 showing up at TSR and asking to be the brand manager of D&D and having everyone in the place laugh their heads off. I might have been able to pull off a job as junior copy editor at that age, but lead developer? Not a chance.

Probably got their nice new shiny game design degree from ITT tech...
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:24 pm

"Maturity" definitely would have effected any game design I would do. A game I would have done 20 years ago would look a lot different then anything I would do today.
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Taranthyll · Post by **Taranthyll** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:47 pm

Treebore wrote:
"Maturity" definitely would have effected any game design I would do. A game I would have done 20 years ago would look a lot different then anything I would do today.

When I look at stuff I wrote 20 years ago, I always shake my head and think wow, I was such a putz. I'm definitely a different person now than I was then, but I wonder if 20 years from now I'll look at stuff I write today and think wow, I was such a putz? Perhaps over time, I'm just becoming a slightly more refined putz.

Telhawk · Post by **Telhawk** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:54 pm

I have to give my sincere congrats to the guys and girls who put that bit together - it really did hit the bone and address all of the head-shakers that WotC/Hasbro has unleashed over the last ten years. My favourite bit was how the teacher had all those just-a-little-bit-sinister messages on the blackboard; someone really put some thought into making sure the picture was complete on this one.
Also, I think it's a pretty sure bet that the crew behind this are Canadian; am I off on this, or are the "gold coins" used in the slay-the-orc sing-along not Canadian loonies?

cuchulainkevin · Post by **cuchulainkevin** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:10 pm

GreyLord wrote:
It sure looks like that is a fan film that is joking about WotC's take on 4e.

Not a serious film...maybe I missed the sarcasm in this thread or something...

Well now, don't I look the fool...
Still, it's about as bad as the other marketing stuff WOTC put out.
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ThrorII · Post by **ThrorII** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:49 pm

When I look at stuff I wrote 20 years ago, I always shake my head and think wow, I was such a putz. I'm definitely a different person now than I was then, but I wonder if 20 years from now I'll look at stuff I write today and think wow, I was such a putz? Perhaps over time, I'm just becoming a slightly more refined putz.[/quote]

There was a comedian who once said "10 years ago, when I looked back at myself 15 years ago, I said 'wow, I was a geek then, but I'm cool now'. Then, 5 years later, I looked back at 5 years ago, and said 'wow, I was a geek then, but I'm cool now'. Now, I just know I'm a geek."

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:15 pm

It looks to me like it is a sarcastic fan film that makes light of 4e's (alleged) strengths, and WotC's (alleged) money-hungry tactics. I thought the video was painfully funny because it hit home for me, not only the way they portrayed WotC's dumbing down of the game, but also by touching on the apparent money grab 4e was/is. At least that's what it appears, to me, that the filmmakers are doing.

DISCLAIMER: These opinions are my own, formed on my own based on my view of 4e and the makers of the previously linked video. I'm not throwing them out there to anger anyone, nor am I looking for a nasty rebuttal. If you like 4e, good for you.
I hate adding this disclaimer to my posts when I talk about 4e.

ssfsx17 · Post by **ssfsx17** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:18 pm

Hahahahaha, that movie was awesome!

"King me." - that is totally like how the majority of 4e players I've met really think.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:17 am

Video was funny. But I think some of the posted reactions here were even funnier

Not sure on the age thing of the actual designers and WotC folks, not the actors in the vid. But it's not like their young punks. Think that Rouse dude is pushing 40. So that makes him a middle aged punk.

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:08 am

Telhawk wrote:
Also, I think it's a pretty sure bet that the crew behind this are Canadian; am I off on this, or are the "gold coins" used in the slay-the-orc sing-along not Canadian loonies?

That be 'Canadian Gold' to be sure! Which reminds me... I need some for laundry...

M
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