OSRIC, GORE, Labyrinth Lord, Basic Fantasy-- any good??

BLOOD AXE · Post by **BLOOD AXE** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:57 pm

Anyone have any experience with these systems??

Are they any good??

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:01 pm

Yeah, they are good. They all work just as well as the games they are clones of. In some ways a little better.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:13 pm

BLOOD AXE wrote:
Anyone have any experience with these systems??

Are they any good??

Depends.

Do you like OD&D, BD&D, B/X D&D or AD&D?

If you say yes, then you might like them. They are clones of those D&D editions, for the most part to allow creation of modules and/or other gaming material without stepping on legal toes.

Personally, I don't need any of them because I have all the original game books and rule sets.

But, I have seen some of the materials produced and they are mostly well written and worth a look.

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BLOOD AXE · Post by **BLOOD AXE** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:32 pm

Yes, I like those systems. A large part of the reason that I like C&C.

Which is best & why??

Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:57 am

Thorny topic.

Basic Fantasy RPG, unlike the other games mentioned in your post, doesn't try being a "toolkit" so one can write adventures to support D&D (OSRIC) or Basic Roleplaying/RuneQuest (GORE). Its author utilized the same approach as Castles & Crusades did, to emulate the style of play rather than restate an existing game. BFRPG to me would be best amongst this list of games because none of the other games are necessary at all, a view which HAS ruffled more than a few feathers. Castles & Crusades though is still better.
Labrynth Lord and GORE aren't necessary because the original books for each rule system these two restate are still readily available in both print and electronic formats, and through various channels legal and not so legal. Granted, the only way to acquire AD&D in printed form now is through ebay, but electronic copies of the three core books are available for $4 each at Paizo. Basic Roleplaying was released in its final version recently (both print and PDF), but had been available in an "edition zero" prerelease version, as well as print on demand monographs for a couple years before that. To me at least, whether the game system is still supported or not does not matter. All that matters is whether the game books are available or not.

OSRIC isn't necessary not only for the reasons given for Labrynth Lord, but also because OSRIC's stated goal as a "toolkit" is superfluous due to the presence of the d20 SRD and the OGL. Both the SRD and OGL do allow for written adventures that are compatible with the AD&D game system, without requiring added "protective" licenses of what I consider dubious value. I feel this last point is proved adequately by the various Castles & Crusades adventures and how seamlessly they can be integrated into a D&D campaign.
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Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:34 am

BLOOD AXE wrote:
Yes, I like those systems. A large part of the reason that I like C&C.

Which is best & why??

Well... if you like Basic Dungeons & Dragons best, then Labyrinth Lord; if you like Advanced Dungeons & Dragons best then OSRIC; if you like Basic best then GORE.
Basic Fantasy is a synthesis of B/AD&D and a bit of D20. You may also find it more to your taste.

Scroll down a little in this subforum and you will find another thread on this subject that goes into more detail as to some of the personal issues that have arisen between some people.
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Relaxo · Post by **Relaxo** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:56 am

No, they suck!

Play C&C!

Honestly, I haven't read them, so I couldn't say.

BLOOD AXE · Post by **BLOOD AXE** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:09 pm

OK, thank you very much for the info guys. I'll also look for that thread.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:55 pm

BFRPG, becauase of the exact reasons Traveller states. Plus, as a complete game" it is hands above the rest. You'll never need another book other then the Basic Fantasy RPG rules. Everything you need to play and run the game is contained within. Everything. More benefits for BFRPG, it's completely free, striking original artwork, and the fact that it is clone of older games, but in reality it's a new game.

Good stuff.

-O
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:51 pm

Yeah, BFRPG is a great game and if it had been produced differently I could see it as a competitor to C&C. Though, C&C is the shavit.
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seskis281 · Post by **seskis281** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:26 pm

These are different creatures, and so are different.

I agree with my fellow posters on BFRPG - Chris Gonnerman's game is a nice blend between BECMI D&D and d20. It is a stand-alone gameset, and can be downloaded or purchased from lulu.

I think Labyrinth Lord is also a good project, for different reasons. Dan Proctor is a stand-up guy, and LL is more a direct retro-clone of Moldvay/Cook B/X D&D, even dedicated to Moldvay's memory. I think it has a place - because it allows for unified new material to be produced for essentially B/X. I'm writing an LL adventure for the upcoming Domesday Book, as a show of Society support for cross-system unity.

I am totally unfamiliar with GORE - can't comment.

OSRIC is a whole other ball of wax -- it's essentially a template for publishing 1e materials new, but it sort of purports to be a system unto itself... there's a lot of history here between C&C and those folks, as OSRIC was the result of a few who were basically pissed that C&C just didn't copy AD&D exactly, and a few who then turned to personal attacks against the Trolls, especially Peter Bradley. Not all, and many of the people who use OSRIC and even write for it are quite good fellas, but that wound was pretty deep and so you shouldn't be surprised to see a good number of people around here with a not-too-high opinion of OSRIC.
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BLOOD AXE · Post by **BLOOD AXE** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:10 pm

Yeah, I noticed the feud at the other threads 8 pages.

I was just wondering at the differences between LL & Basic. They both seem BECMI clones. While OSRIC does the same with advanced.

I'll have to check them out & search for some reviews.

Thanks.

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:32 pm

Ses is right. Even though things cooled down and some of the people involved in the feud are talking to one another, the wounds and resentment over that mess are still there. As a rule just don't mention OSRIC.
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Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:01 pm

Omote wrote:
BFRPG, becauase of the exact reasons Traveller states. Plus, as a complete game" it is hands above the rest. You'll never need another book other then the Basic Fantasy RPG rules. Everything you need to play and run the game is contained within. Everything. More benefits for BFRPG, it's completely free, striking original artwork, and the fact that it is clone of older games, but in reality it's a new game.

Good stuff.

-O

Ditto.
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BLOOD AXE · Post by **BLOOD AXE** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:21 am

Well, I downloaded Labyrinth Lord & i like it,so Im buying a "real" copy. I like Basic D&D, I just wanna tweak it a bit.

Mutant Future looks neat too.

Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:30 pm

BLOOD AXE wrote:
Mutant Future looks neat too.

Mutant Future is awesome!

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:41 pm

Basic Fantasy RPG, all the way.

-O
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papercut · Post by **papercut** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:10 pm

BTW, I believe that OSRIC is the "game that shall not be named."

Nuff Said
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Kersus · Post by **Kersus** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:29 pm

They all rock. My particular favorites are Swords & Wizardry and OSRIC as they encompass my favorite versions of D&D.

K
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BLOOD AXE · Post by **BLOOD AXE** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:41 pm

I got Labyrinth Lord & Mutant Future (Goblinoid Games) from LULU. 4 day shipping & packed nice. They both are great retro-games.

Barrataria · Post by **Barrataria** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:46 am

BLOOD AXE wrote:
I got Labyrinth Lord & Mutant Future (Goblinoid Games) from LULU. 4 day shipping & packed nice. They both are great retro-games.

Lulu does a really nice job on the printing end... kind of a pain to work with from the publishing side, but they at least make print-on-demand possible.
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Coleston the Cavalier · Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:14 am

Barrataria wrote:
Lulu does a really nice job on the printing end... kind of a pain to work with from the publishing side, but they at least make print-on-demand possible.

Absolutely true on both counts!
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BLOOD AXE · Post by **BLOOD AXE** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:37 am

Barrataria wrote:
Lulu does a really nice job on the printing end... kind of a pain to work with from the publishing side, but they at least make print-on-demand possible.

I checked out the "Ruined Hamlet/Terror in the Gloaming". VERY NICE.

Next on my LULU list.

skathros · Post by **skathros** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:29 pm

I like my retro-clone games to be...well, clones of the original. Probably why I prefer LL or OSRIC to BFRP.

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:26 am

skathros wrote:
I like my retro-clone games to be...well, clones of the original. Probably why I prefer LL or OSRIC to BFRP.

I was going to start another thread, and your post is basically what I was going to ask. Apparently both LL and BFRPG are "based" off of B/X D&D. But what are the differences, exactly?

Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:18 pm

Lord Dynel wrote:
I was going to start another thread, and your post is basically what I was going to ask. Apparently both LL and BFRPG are "based" off of B/X D&D. But what are the differences, exactly?

I believe BFRPG uses ascending armor classes, while LL sticks to descending.

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:04 pm

I went with C&C instead of LL, despite the difference in price, because the Negative ACs, Race Classes and THAC0 elements of BD&D were removed in favour of the unified D20 mechanic and the AD&D treatment of Race and Class.

That being said, I love LL for the fact that it is Moldvay/Cook D&D, my favourite edition of the game. The reason you would want it over trying to find copies of the older sets is because it expands the levels to 20 (M/C only went to 14) and also it streamlines and cleans up the rules with changes folks have talked about for almost 30 years (clerics, experience tables, etc.) to make it more playable, but the differences are so minor and based on math that you wouldn't notice them unless you had the books side by side. So it's M/C D&D 1.5e.

So, out of all the retro-clones, I think it's the cloniest. Oh, and Mutant Future is da bomb (pun fully intended)...
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:05 pm

Good to know. Thanks, sir.

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:43 pm

Lord Dynel wrote:
Good to know. Thanks, sir.

Don't call me Sir. I work for a livin'.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:23 am

Luther wrote:
Don't call me Sir. I work for a livin'.

Dang. First Peter rides my butt about that, then you. It's a Southern display of respect, I do declare!

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OSRIC, GORE, Labyrinth Lord, Basic Fantasy-- any good??

OSRIC, GORE, Labyrinth Lord, Basic Fantasy-- any good??

Re: OSRIC, GORE, Labyrinth Lord, Basic Fantasy-- any good??