Do sleep spells affect Water Whips (as in CZ: UW) and elementals in general? The books don't say either way, and the issue came up when a 1st-level wizard tried to do just that.
Also, when exactly should players be allowed a save vs. illusions to disbelieve effects?
Two rules questions
re: elementals, you're right. It doesn't say they are immune anywhere in the C&C books. FWIW, elemental types in the SRD are immune to sleep and the entries in M&T are pretty closely based on the SRD.
re: illusions. The easiest answer is to check the spell description and see if it allows a Save. If it's not literally a spell being cast, then "It depends."
Usually, I'd give the PCs a save. But YMMV.
re: illusions. The easiest answer is to check the spell description and see if it allows a Save. If it's not literally a spell being cast, then "It depends."
Usually, I'd give the PCs a save. But YMMV.
“Style is the perfection of a point of view.”
Its literally up to the CK. If you think elementals do not sleep, they can't fall asleep. I personally don't allow it to work against elementals. If you want elementals to sleep, then they are affected.
As for Illusions, two times. When the spell says so, and when the CK thinks they should.
This is the short answer, we have had long discussions on this board about how to adjudicate Illusions, and so have most, if not all D&D boards of every edition.
The 3E SRD (online) does give some pretty darn good guidelines for games and illusions in general. OR the 3E books, if you have them.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
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As for Illusions, two times. When the spell says so, and when the CK thinks they should.
This is the short answer, we have had long discussions on this board about how to adjudicate Illusions, and so have most, if not all D&D boards of every edition.
The 3E SRD (online) does give some pretty darn good guidelines for games and illusions in general. OR the 3E books, if you have them.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
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Lord Dynel
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I'd say that sleep spells do not affect elementals. Just my personal opinion, though.
On illusions, I've always directed people to this four part Wizards of the Coast article. It goes into some darn good detail on illusions, and devinitely worth a read.
Good Luck!
On illusions, I've always directed people to this four part Wizards of the Coast article. It goes into some darn good detail on illusions, and devinitely worth a read.
Good Luck!
LD's C&C creations - CL Checker, a witch class, the half-ogre, skills, and 0-level rules
Troll Lord wrote:Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.
my general rules interpretation comes to one basic thing: what is fun? would it be humorous or interesting to allow a sleep spell to temporarily assuage an elemental? yes, and it is a clever trick, so i would allow it. it does not greatly empower the spell since it is unlikely many elementals would be subject to it. on the other hand, if i were to use many "lesser elementals," i might give them a save, perhaps like the elf gets, or simply make them immune so it does not become standard practice. really depends on the nature of the game, i suppose.
regarding illusions, though, is a tricky question. a great deal revolves around individual definitions and restrictions. but, i typically rule that an illusion witnessed in casting receives a save (as do all spells that say one is applicable) and then, when interacted with, often with bonuses or penalties based on how defined the illusion.
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the voynich manuscript is a mysterious illustrated book written in an indecipherable text. it is thought to have been written between 1450 and 1520. the author, script and language of the manuscript remain unknown.
regarding illusions, though, is a tricky question. a great deal revolves around individual definitions and restrictions. but, i typically rule that an illusion witnessed in casting receives a save (as do all spells that say one is applicable) and then, when interacted with, often with bonuses or penalties based on how defined the illusion.
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the voynich manuscript is a mysterious illustrated book written in an indecipherable text. it is thought to have been written between 1450 and 1520. the author, script and language of the manuscript remain unknown.