Cartography Software Recommendations

[dkeester]

Being a fan of 'olde schoole' gaming, I really like using 1st Ed style hex and grid maps for my games. However, also being a 21st Century digital boy, I find myself wishing for a good piece of software to ease my task whenever I take graph paper and pencil in hand.

I have started looking around for cartography software with fantasy & RPG use in mind. I have found a few possibilities:

-Campaign Cartographer

-Dundjinni

-Fractal Mapper

Anyone have experience with these, or similar products? Care to give a recommendation?

Thanks for your help.

[Lord Dynel]

I own Campaign Cartographer 2 (haven't upgraded to CC3 yet, but my friend has). I have to tell you, and maybe it's personal bias, but Campaign Cartographer is pretty awesome. I have never had an issue ever doing any kind of map I want. And, there's Fractal Terrains (which creates on a world-scale and can be ported into CC2 or CC3), City Designer (which is, IMHO, one of the best city designer software ever ), Dungeon Designer, plus a load of other addons that can handle any and all of your mapping needs. I'll admit, I don't know too much about the other ones, but that's probably because with CC, I've never had to look elsewhere for my game mapping needs.

[angelius]

Has to be CC3, I've had extensive research trying to get the best program and although theres a big learning curve, CC3 is by far the best program.
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[SirClarence]

I agree about CC3, but unless you want to spend many frustrating hours trying to figure out how it works, you should better know someone to show you. The learning curve is steep indeed, but once you have mastered it, you have a program that offers you all.

[Breakdaddy]

CC3 is a great program and worth the bucks but requires a significant time investment. Dundjinni is more WYSIWYG but due in no small part to its java native environment is a nasty hog and sometimes doesnt work at all if you dont have the right version of java installed. I would love to recommend it but cannot as it's one of the most frustrating pieces of software I've ever tried. Go with Campaign Cartographer.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I have been debating about CC3 for a while, I guess I need to just break down and get it.

[Taranthyll]

I use both Campaign Cartographer and Dundjinni, and I love them both for different reasons.

Campaign Cartographer is CAD based software and has a fairly steep learning curve, but it comes with an excellent manual with a thorough tutorial that will get teach you the basics. Where CC excels, in my opinion, is in the creation of small-scale world maps - the results are very professional-looking (the output is very similar to the Forgotten Realms campaign setting map, which I believe was created using CC). One of the really neat things you can do is hyperlink maps. So you can create a detailed map of a city, for example and link it to the city icon on your world map - when you click on the city icon, your city map opens. Likewise you can create maps of building interiors and link them to the building icons on your city map. You can do the same things with dungeon maps, linking them to ruins icons on your world map. You can also create layers of details, such as resources, dungeon locations, etc. that can be hidden with a single click of a button to create a player's version of the map, without all the secret details you don't want the players to see. You can also buy City Cartographer and Dungeon Cartographer add-ons to the basic CC for mapping cities and dungeons. I don't have any experience with these, though I imagine it makes the process a lot easier - you can build cities and dungeons without them, but it is a lot of work.

Dundjinni, on the other hand, I like better for creating tactical scale maps. This is a much easier program to use and to learn than Campaign Cartographer, and contains a lot of 'drag-and-drop' images that use to create maps very quickly. There is an online user's manual available on the Dundjinni website and a tutorial that guides you through the creation of a sample prison cell-block. Dundjinni has an adventure builder component as well, which allows you to add keyed text to the rooms for creating your dungeon adventures. The real beauty of Dundjinni is that you can print the maps off at miniature-scale and you can overlay a square or hex grid if you wish. I use this a lot for creating beautiful miniature battle maps for encounter areas with a grid at the 1"=5 feet scale. I like to print these on heavy cardstock for durability. This means you can create your own custom dungeon tiles, inns, buildings, anything you like. I've never had the slightest problem with Dundjinni, and have always found it an absolute breeze to use. The adventure maps that were published, until recently, in Dungeon Magazine are similar to what Dundjinni maps look like.

So, which program you go with depends a lot on what you want to use it for. I like CC best for creating campaign maps, and Dundjinni best for tactical maps. Each program can be made to do both, but I prefer each for its own specialty.

[dkeester]

Wow! Thanks for the great replies.

Since it seems there is no experience here with Fractal Mapper, I can axe it from the list.

I will have to take a good hard look at CC3 and Dundjinni.

[gideon_thorne]

A pencil, some paper, a scanner, and Photoshop. It looks a lot less fake than the electronic auto pattern map making widgets.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[dkeester]

gideon_thorne wrote:
A pencil, some paper, a scanner, and Photoshop. It looks a lot less fake than the electronic auto pattern map making widgets.

My art skills are more at the level of crayons and construction paper.

[Joe]

I have to agree with Peter.

Unless your drawing is simply atrocious, I prefer to know it was a task of love and not just a mouse click.

You can spend hours learning how to use the program with your face stuck in the computer...or you can spend hours relaxing beside your honey drawing it exactly how you would.

I don't know about you, but I already spend too much time in front of a computer.
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'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim

'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell

[gideon_thorne]

Joe wrote:
I

I don't know about you, but I already spend too much time in front of a computer.

hahahah! Hear hear. And how can one tell one has spent too much time working on a computer? Simple. When one gets up to go get something to drink, and has it as his first impulse to hit 'save' when working on an actual pencil drawing.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[dachda]

Not to argue with Peter, and Joe, but I'm pretty sure all three of the computer options have free downloadable demos. You could try them all before buying. Usually such demos are full featured but block you from saving anything you create. Maybe give that a try.
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Castles & Crusades Society

[dkeester]

Quote:
I prefer to know it was a task of love and not just a mouse click.

So, my choice to use software rather than pencil and paper instantly makes it not a labor of love? How does that work?

[Relaxo]

Peter is a professional artist so his methods might be more geared for that. Though, I'm sure drawing by hand and Photoshopping give you total control over everything.

I've used the CC2 demo and liked the results. It's not a bad idea to try the demos of the others to compare and see what works for you. Consider this, more people may have CC or it's viewer at least, so you may have an easier time sharing CC files. (or maybe not, There are probably free viewers for all 3 programs).

just my $0.02. hope it helps!

[danbuter]

http://www.mythosa.net/Downloads.html

There is hex mapping program here called Wilderness Mapper. It's simplistic, but does the trick. And it's free.
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Dan
http://home.comcast.net/~danbuter/candc.html - my Castles and Crusades webpage

[Lord Dynel]

gideon_thorne wrote:
A pencil, some paper, a scanner, and Photoshop. It looks a lot less fake than the electronic auto pattern map making widgets.

The more I think about it, the better this option sounds. I have a completely detailed campaign world, complete with a ton of CC2 maps and about 600 pages of information that has survived both 2nd and 3rd Edition. But after I finally got it "done" (or as done as I think it's going to get) and converted editions, I think that I want to start over. And I think that I will start over on a small scale, maybe 50 miles x 50 miles. I might eventually expand it out (and might break down and use CC2 again) but for now using some hand drawn maps and Photoshop might be a good route to go.

But yeah, if you want a map program, I highly recommend Campaign Cartographer.

[Fiffergrund]

I have and use CC2. It's extremely powerful, but it's essentially a modified CAD engine, so it has a learning curve.

I prefer using CC2 because I find Photoshop to be relatively obtuse. I know I can get a hex grid in CC2 to my specifications. I'm certain it can be done in Photoshop, but I don't want to monkey around for hours figuring it out.

The problem with using any software is that you need to *keep* using it or you'll forget it all. I got very good with CC2 a couple of years ago, and I haven't made many maps with it since. I'm extremely rusty, so if I had to do something in a hurry, I'd need to relearn a lot of things.

Whatever you choose, practice it and stick with it, make maps for fun, and use the techniques you learn on a frequent basis. Otherwise you'll forget them.
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He Who Hides Behind The Elephant's Back

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I already have Dundjini and since I do Cad & 3D stuff for a living I think I'll try the Campaign Cartographer.

[gideon_thorne]

Relaxo wrote:
Peter is a professional artist so his methods might be more geared for that. Though, I'm sure drawing by hand and Photoshopping give you total control over everything.

There is that, but I just don't care for the 'digitized' look that CC and similar programs give. Fractal Terrains is neat, cause it actually can be art-ed up in photoshop. But the terrain patterns in most software designed for map making is just too repetitive for my sensibilities.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[angelius]

gideon_thorne wrote:
There is that, but I just don't care for the 'digitized' look that CC and similar programs give. Fractal Terrains is neat, cause it actually can be art-ed up in photoshop. But the terrain patterns in most software designed for map making is just too repetitive for my sensibilities.

I agree but how do you turn pencil and paper into something cool? What is your process?
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[gideon_thorne]

angelius wrote:
I agree but how do you turn pencil and paper into something cool? What is your process?

I have a line drawing that I overlay on a pre set up parchment background. For that, I scanned in a sheet of parchment.

As for hexes and the like, even though I reeeeally don't like hex maps, I have a pre set hex set up from some software I found.

For other stuff, like tree's and mountains, a lot of dodge and burn functions in photoshop and a couple of architecture 'terrain' templates that I turned into pattern brushes.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[Relaxo]

gideon_thorne wrote:
I have a line drawing that I overlay on a pre set up parchment background. For that, I scanned in a sheet of parchment.

See! The professional makes it sound easy!

[dkeester]

Pencils and paper are great tools. Peter does amazing things with them. I don't have anywhere near the talent and skill that he does. I think for my use something like CC would be a more effective tool. Unlike Peter's work, my maps will never be art. I just need them to effectively convey the correct information to my players. They are aides for my games.

Then again, I am also a computer geek. I like high-tech solutions.

[Joe]

Quote:
So, my choice to use software rather than pencil and paper instantly makes it not a labor of love? How does that work?

I'm simply speaking from personal experience. Which is actually the only experience I am at liberty to speak from. My experience with computers 8 hours plus per day is not one I cherish. By all means to each his own.
I know from my personal experience that I spent a lot on Campaign Cartographer then spent a lot of hours vainly trying to learn how to make simple maps, not the complex ones in my head.

Then when I got the dunginni demo it was easier to use, but still not the maps I had imagined.

I have no experience with fractal terrains.

I must say the wilderness mapper is better suited to my pocketbook right now.
The time spent I could have completed manymany maps. It does not take an artist to effectively convey the basic information but one man's art is another man's trash.

I then resigned myself to sitting down with colored pencils and poster paper and actually can attest that I enjoyed myself.

I now have 2 programs you are welcome to buy from me if you wish.
That and the fact that when I see a module with a quickly put together map from the puter, and one that someone bothered to draw by hand my personal responce is much more positive toward the hand drawn than the clicky click. So once again, I'm just sharing my own advice and my own opinion concerning maps because you posted the question. Computer gen bores me, while hand work get's my attention.

Thats how it works for me.
I can't speak for others...Obama has that job. Peanut butter jelly
Have fun whatever you do.
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'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim

'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell

[Joe]

Hey...speaking of, where can I find 1 inch poster sized hex paper?
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'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim

'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell

[angelius]

How do you overlay stuff that sounds great! I can totally picture it but I have no idea how to do it. hehehe....
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[dkeester]

Joe wrote:
I'm simply speaking from personal experience. Which is actually the only experience I am at liberty to speak from. My experience with computers 8 hours plus per day is not one I cherish. By all means to each his own.
I know from my personal experience that I spent a lot on Campaign Cartographer then spent a lot of hours vainly trying to learn how to make simple maps, not the complex ones in my head.

Then when I got the dunginni demo it was easier to use, but still not the maps I had imagined.

I have no experience with fractal terrains.

I must say the wilderness mapper is better suited to my pocketbook right now.
The time spent I could have completed manymany maps. It does not take an artist to effectively convey the basic information but one man's art is another man's trash.

I then resigned myself to sitting down with colored pencils and poster paper and actually can attest that I enjoyed myself.

I now have 2 programs you are welcome to buy from me if you wish.
That and the fact that when I see a module with a quickly put together map from the puter, and one that someone bothered to draw by hand my personal responce is much more positive toward the hand drawn than the clicky click. So once again, I'm just sharing my own advice and my own opinion concerning maps because you posted the question. Computer gen bores me, while hand work get's my attention.

Thats how it works for me.
I can't speak for others...Obama has that job. Peanut butter jelly
Have fun whatever you do.

I get what you are saying now. Thank you for sharing. It is good to hear the negative reviews as well as the positive.

My drawing skills are not good, so I am hoping to be able to create better maps.

[DangerDwarf]

I've only tried CC2. Can't say I love it or hate it, just that it is functional.

It can be a frustrating program but I've done a lot of mapping with it and it does get the job done. Not a huge fan of the appearance of CC2 maps overall though.

[CharlieRock]

I use Dundjinni mainly. I have CC3 but it was a pain in the rear to use. But, luckily Dundjinni can use the map icons (mountain ranges, trees, and city) as well as the textures (blue water, green grassland, yellow sands). I also have one called CartoGraph that is very simple (and very basic, unfortunately) that is so far incompatible with either CC3 or Dundjinni. Dundjinni was easier and I found it for le$$. Also, I downloaded a lot of other icons from the dundjinni website (in the forums). I can make overland/wilderness maps and interiors.
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The Rock says ...

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