So confused....brain hurts!

dutch206 · Post by **dutch206** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:53 am

I am trying to make sense of the Aihrde setting material so I can see about running the A series, and I am completely lost.

1) Where is the "Outremer" that the setting book keeps referring to? I see Blacktooth Ridge is located in some place called "New Aenochia" on the map, but in the book, this region is called New Aenoch. (The book I own is stock number 8016, if that helps)

2) Assuming we can all decide to call this area "New Aenoch", the nation entry refers to the "old gods" being pushed aside by the cult of Ore-Tsar. Since all the gods are approximately the same age, which gods would you be referring to as the "old" ones?

3) Which of the 13 tribes of men live in this kingdom? I can't make heads or tails out of the human migrations map.

4) Where can I learn more about the "Wizard Knights" and other groups menitoned as being located in New Aenoch?

5) How does Stock #8016 (After Winter's Dark Setting) differ from Stock #6021, listed in "On the Anvil"? (It is simply called Aihrde)

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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:06 am

1) Where is the "Outremer" that the setting book keeps referring to? I see Blacktooth Ridge is located in some place called "New Aenochia" on the map, but in the book, this region is called New Aenoch. (The book I own is stock number 8016, if that helps)

Outremere is what it was called in the D20 book, New Aenochia is the proper location. Still, the maps do not match up well, so don't even try. Just put Ludensheim furthest up the river and closest to Aufstrag, and then have Botkinburg 20 to 40 miles further south on the river, and then the ridge is that area to the east of the river.

2) Assuming we can all decide to call this area "New Aenoch", the nation entry refers to the "old gods" being pushed aside by the cult of Ore-Tsar. Since all the gods are approximately the same age, which gods would you be referring to as the "old" ones?

The "old gods" are all the mainstays listed, Ore Tsar is an upcoming deity, or maybe an alter ego of Unklar?
3) Which of the 13 tribes of men live in this kingdom? I can't make heads or tails out of the human migrations map.

I don't know, Rhuvein may have this figured out.

4) Where can I learn more about the "Wizard Knights" and other groups menitoned as being located in New Aenoch?

No where, write them up yourself, or get the D20 Erde PDF and convert stuff from there.

5) How does Stock #8016 (After Winter's Dark Setting) differ from Stock #6021, listed in "On the Anvil"? (It is simply called Aihrde)

I believe they are the same thing.
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dutch206 · Post by **dutch206** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:11 pm

"Codex of Erde" link on the Osoji page of the store is broken, so I am assuming that the book is no longer available. Also, no listing for it on Drive-thru RPG.

I'm really not all that keen on the idea of having to buy another book to understand the book I just bought.

I just caught a 100 year time difference in the timeline section and the political map totally skipped over location #19.

I really want to like this product, but I'm having problems. It is inconsistent and lacking in certain kinds of detail. (Like, what are the populations of the seven cities in New Aenoch, for instance).
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:45 pm

dutch206 wrote:
"Codex of Erde" link on the Osoji page of the store is broken, so I am assuming that the book is no longer available. Also, no listing for it on Drive-thru RPG.

I'm really not all that keen on the idea of having to buy another book to understand the book I just bought.

I just caught a 100 year time difference in the timeline section and the political map totally skipped over location #19.

I really want to like this product, but I'm having problems. It is inconsistent and lacking in certain kinds of detail. (Like, what are the populations of the seven cities in New Aenoch, for instance).

The time lines are inconsistent on purpose. Each race had their own interpretation of events. And, like much of real world history, doesn't always line up right.

As for the Winter Dark folio, its also not intended to be a complete treatment. Its a primer only. Rather like Eastmark was for CZ

Quote:
5) How does Stock #8016 (After Winter's Dark Setting) differ from Stock #6021, listed in "On the Anvil"? (It is simply called Aihrde)

I believe they are the same thing.

*smiles* Actually they aren't, or they wouldn't have different stock numbers. I expect the most likely explanation is that the Aihrde book mentioned is an eventually planned re release of the Codex of Erde.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:19 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
dutch206 wrote:
*smiles* Actually they aren't, or they wouldn't have different stock numbers. I expect the most likely explanation is that the Aihrde book mentioned is an eventually planned re release of the Codex of Erde.

That would be the best thing. When I asked the question I was told one was what "Into the Winter Dark" was originally going to be released as, and then the name was changed to "Into the Winter Dark".

A rewritten Codex would be awesome.

Dutch,

Like Gideon says this is the Primer. The Codex is hundreds of pages long with tons more info. However it is not the best written product the Trolls have done.

There are holes in the time line, and things just mentioned and not explained so that we CK's are free to develop these things as we wish. They tried to avoid a setting like the Forgotten Realms where it is so developed that a DM may feel there is nothing open for him to do their own thing with.
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:54 pm

I have both the Codex and the new AWD. In all honesty it's worth the 5 or so bucks it is priced at to get this. Granted it is D20 but there are not that many mechanics in it.

Think of the new AWD as like the original Greyhawk folio.
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dutch206 · Post by **dutch206** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:03 pm

If I had known that, I would have skipped AWD and just purchased Erde.
OTOH, I dragged out my old 2nd edition World-builder's guidebook and started filling in details. The town of Hrueset is now detailed down to the number of Inns and Taverns it possesses. That's going to be where the characters are from before they go off to A0 (Rising Knight).
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:16 pm

dutch206 wrote:
If I had known that, I would have skipped AWD and just purchased Erde.

Don't worry, if you end up liking the setting you'll be glad you have both. At least I am, and I think Julian has said the same.
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:33 pm

Treebore wrote:
Don't worry, if you end up liking the setting you'll be glad you have both. At least I am, and I think Julian has said the same.

Yeppers. I'll even go a step further and say that if you have the money get the D20 modules for Airdhe as well. I know some are being remade but they are also a great resource. Of course, I fell in love with the setting and wanted to get the stuff.
Something else to consider as well is that Airdhe takes some people time to get used to. I know of one person here that said he liked it only after rereading the material a few times. It took some time with me as well but I am glad I found it. YMMV.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:46 pm

Yeah, the D20 stuff is on sale too. Cheap!
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:51 pm

Just so you know, Dutch. The Codex has things in it like, how vampires came to Airdhe. Much more on the histories (like about 40 pages of it), more on the gods, groups and guilds and things like that. You will know some differences in things like gods names and such but they are minor and I actually like the Codex version of some things better.

I consider the Codex and Folio 'canon', whatever that means, but I look at them as texts from two different perspectives and/ or different authors.
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:06 pm

Course I'm not sure what format the new Aihrde would be in? Whether its a box or book? Personally, I'd prefer a box since one can actually put big maps in it, not to mention the cost of production is way less.
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:31 pm

I'm hoping for a box. Though I would lean to a format much like the Gazetteer series for Basic D&D.
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dutch206 · Post by **dutch206** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:18 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice. I found the Codex of Erde on Amazon for two bucks. Merry Christmas to me!
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:15 pm

dutch206 wrote:
Thanks for all the suggestions and advice. I found the Codex of Erde on Amazon for two bucks. Merry Christmas to me!

Those Amazon vendors can be awesome. There was a period of time where I was getting D20 books from them for $.01 plus their shipping. They are the only reason I own anything Eberron related.
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Kos · Post by **Kos** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:57 pm

I've been confused about this to(I only own the codex). Where is the A1 series located? Between the Kellerwald and Aufstrag? It hasn't come up yet but eventualy my players will want to go to a city.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:59 pm

Kos wrote:
I've been confused about this to(I only own the codex). Where is the A1 series located? Between the Kellerwald and Aufstrag? It hasn't come up yet but eventualy my players will want to go to a city.

Near that area, yes.
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Kos · Post by **Kos** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:34 am

OK that makes sense. Cheers.

Now for a trip to high Ascalon...

dutch206 · Post by **dutch206** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:44 am

I actually know the answer to this one! (LOL)

Go to RPG Now and download the free Aihrde maps from the TLG page. On the one marked "Aihrde Area Map East", look all the way over in the south-east corner of the map. Just above New Aenoch, you will see a tiny region marked "Blacktooth Ridge".

The really confusing thing is that in some places, it is referred to as the Eastern Marches, other places refer to it as the Northern Marches, and another place refers to it as the Duchy of Hrueset.
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:34 pm

That's one thing I hope gets cleared up in the future. The Blacktooth Ridge area is now defined in the new AWD Folio but I feel it could be defined better. Perhaps a new Outremere map would be a good place to do this.
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Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:54 pm

The good news on these mapping issues is that Peter and I have broken the world of aihrde map up into equal blocks and I'm going through each section and fleshing it out. I've done the Darkenfold region for the Mortality of Shades adventures, I'm going to shift focus to the other side of the world to clear this other stuff up. Part of the confusion comes from the Living Erde campaign from way back when, sections were developed by the players and I didn't get it noted in my notes. It has never, to my satisfaction been settled. But I will get that wrapped up.

I'll remark on those other questions later tonight as I am off to scrounge up to dinner after a long day spent in the dungeons of Festung Akt (A5).

Steve
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dutch206 · Post by **dutch206** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:31 pm

Troll Lord wrote:
I'll remark on those other questions later tonight as I am off to scrounge up to dinner after a long day spent in the dungeons of Festung Akt (A5).

Steve

If you were in the dungeons of Festun Akt, you were probably closer to BEING dinner.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:42 pm

MOAR MAPS!!!
In color plz.

-O
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Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:22 am

A5 has the placement nicely drawn out and down. I'll see to getting that map put up for a free download in the near future.

WEBMASTER!!!!

Steve
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:40 am

I think it would be beneficial to the customers and fan-base to ramp up the volume of free materials available, as people greatly like to test the waters before they swim. Or, the ones that survive, do.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:44 am

Wouldn't have to be full products either, like excerpt a specific small encounter, with any relevant map, and offer it as a kind of Preview like I often see on RPNow. I'd prefer they be offered through TLG, I hate having to sign into RPGNow, especially for small stuff.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:14 pm

Treebore wrote:
The "old gods" are all the mainstays listed, Ore Tsar is an upcoming deity, or maybe an alter ego of Unklar?

Actually, Ore-Tsar is Demeter. Not just locations got a name change.

Also, to the OP, I don't think the Old/New should be taken too literally. Divinities in Aihrde are very regional in many cases. "New" doesn't have to mean new overall, simply new to the populace. With the crusades happening in New Aenoch and the expanding of the Empress, Demeter/Ore-Tsar is gaining popularity with monoarchs, thus making it a "state" religion. This, to the general populace who may have worshippe dother gods, makes Ore-Tsar "new".

Religion in Aihrde reminds me far more of real world religions than your standard fantasy world. Makes more sense too.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:57 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
Actually, Ore-Tsar is Demeter. Not just locations got a name change.

Also, to the OP, I don't think the Old/New should be taken too literally. Divinities in Aihrde are very regional in many cases. "New" doesn't have to mean new overall, simply new to the populace. With the crusades happening in New Aenoch and the expanding of the Empress, Demeter/Ore-Tsar is gaining popularity with monoarchs, thus making it a "state" religion. This, to the general populace who may have worshippe dother gods, makes Ore-Tsar "new".

Religion in Aihrde reminds me far more of real world religions than your standard fantasy world. Makes more sense too.

Yeah, I know. I was just suggesting that maybe it really isn't Demeter, since Demeter directly fought Unklar, or at least could have. So I was suggesting an interesting twist to where Unklar is actually still around, but licking his wounds quietly by passing himself off as an old enemy. The real reason Ore-Tsar is gaining popularity with monarchs is because of the power offered to them in secrecy, and when Unklar is ready to openly control Airhde again he will do so with the worlds monarchs already being his puppets.
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:21 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
Actually, Ore-Tsar is Demeter. Not just locations got a name change.

Also, to the OP, I don't think the Old/New should be taken too literally. Divinities in Aihrde are very regional in many cases. "New" doesn't have to mean new overall, simply new to the populace. With the crusades happening in New Aenoch and the expanding of the Empress, Demeter/Ore-Tsar is gaining popularity with monoarchs, thus making it a "state" religion. This, to the general populace who may have worshippe dother gods, makes Ore-Tsar "new".

Religion in Aihrde reminds me far more of real world religions than your standard fantasy world. Makes more sense too.

Quite. The differences in religions could be accounted for by the logic of 'regional variations'. Same way IRL belief sets have various 'denominations'.

Good thought.
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dutch206 · Post by **dutch206** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:34 pm

Actually, if you read the entry for Ore-tsar in the Folio, one of this deity's other names is listed as "Daimatar". So, I'm fairly sure this is Demeter from the d20 book.
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