Talislanta

MacLeod · Post by **MacLeod** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:41 pm

So I just acquired Talislanta 4th Edition from Plaag. A fantastic purchase if I do say so myself.
I really like the system quite a bit. It is very simple and has a particular elegance about it (reminds me of C&C in that regard). The setting is fantastic as well. Tons of information without going into so much detail as to restrict imagination.

However, as usual, my first thoughts are "How can I make this game fit my style of play?"

I have a particular love for balance and customization... I don't want anyone to feel like they have to take a particular archetype for any reason. I also don't want someone to shy away from a race because the archetype makes them useless for the type of campaign we usually run. Outside of the archetypes, the only other issue I have is that some of the skills are way too specific... Only some. Many of them are perfect and lend lots of flavor. I've gone ahead and condensed those.
Anyways.

What I've done is taken 53 of the races from the book and mashed them into little shapes that I find appealing. I did this based on a Point system which assigns values to Attributes, Hp, Magic, Skills, Languages and Special Abilities. Each race is built on 30 Points to create some semblance of balance. Obviously some races will still be a little more able than others no matter what... In any event I made an attempt to represent what a basic adventurer of that race would be. The next step is that the Player will be able to distribute 30 points amongst the previously stated categories. Limits exist so you can't put all 30 points into your Combat Rating or something silly like that...

This system should allow for fairly capable PCs. I've mapped out the power levels of the other races; they range from 40 to around 100 Points (PCs are built on 60). Outside of the fact that these PCs will be playable... they will also fit the Player's vision more easily.

I'm a little more than half way done with the whole thing. Now I'm wondering if anyone else has played Talislanta? If so, do you have any house rules you wouldn't mind sharing with me? Any tips, tricks or advice I should be aware of?

I heard that 5th Edition of Talislanta has customizable character creation... but I've also heard that it is still unbalanced. It also split into a bunch of books which doesn't appeal to me either. I like that Talislanta 4E is a single tome... I do plan on buying The Menagerie and Midnight Realms though.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:58 pm

Pre-4e is better...
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Plaag · Post by **Plaag** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:09 pm

Glad you like it.

I have everything except one of the books from every pre 4th, but sadly have read very little, and I think most of what I read was the 4th edition book.
http://www.hurloon.net/talislanta/books.html Lists everything from the early years.
http://web.archive.org/web/200708101132 ... oducts.htm is what came after from Morrigan Press. Looks like the site ends at Jan 2008. I remember going to their website before it was closed. I thought they only got up to producing The Weight of Water, but seems there is a couple 5th edition books (wiki site mentions so)
http://web.archive.org/web/200801161609 ... lanta.html

ShaneG.

MacLeod · Post by **MacLeod** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:27 pm

I only wish you had The Menagerie and Midnight Realms books... Midnight Realms isn't very expensive but I can't really seem to find The Menagerie for 4th around. I really want that in particular. Oh well, hopefully I can find it at a reasonable price somewhere. @Serlean: After reading the system for Tal4, I can't imagine how any of the previous editions could be any better. It also seems like the general consensus across the webbernets is that Tal4 is quite definitive in comparison. It probably helps that I've come in after the death of the game so I don't have any of that messy nostalgia stuff to wade through.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:33 am

I started playing Talislanta back during the 2nd Edition of the game and absolutely fell in love with all those years ago. I skipped the 3rd edition completely then picked up again for the 4th.

For a 1 stop deal, Tal4 is the best. You get the most bang for your buck in the massive Tal4 book, but there are some things I miss about Tal2.

House rules? Nah, I play most games as written, never been real big on house ruling. One of my favorite aspects about Talislanta is the utter disregard for balance so I'm afraid I can't help you there.

Northern Reaches is another good book to get for Tal 4. I like Midnight Realm too, but it's a bit trippy.

Great system that should give you a lot of fun times. We've done everything from big monster stomping epics to simple merchant campaigns.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:39 am

It has nothing to do with nostalgia -- I started with The Arcanum, which was the pre-Talislanta system, and everything to do with a more fundamental thing -- I prefer to see how things were intended, and I have this naive belief that the way it is originally released is how it was intended, or it would not have been.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:09 am

I agree with serleran on this. Early stuff was fantastic, and going back one more step, to The Arcanum, it really seems to take a look at things from a prototypical standpoint. Of course, I probably diverge from serleran, because my feelings are totally nostalgia driven. Honestly I've never looked at the 4th edition stuff, honestly, though I have heard that it's good from reviews and such. I really didn't like the 3rd edition stuff, though that opinion is only from the fact that while the rules were solid (though a little too much like D&D, IMHO), the book didn't "wow" me that much. If you say it's good, MacLeod, I'll take your word for it.
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MacLeod · Post by **MacLeod** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:17 am

Heh, I'd recommend giving it a try. But I doubt you need another FRPG in y'r rotation. I really do like the level-less approach of Tal4 though, that part really made me happy.
@Serlean: Hm... That doesn't really tell me anything.

What doesn't Tal4 have that is in the original vision? I'm curious because I always want the best version of something... rather, the best version for me. It seems that anything that was lost in the transition to Tal4 can be reclaimed... unless it is system oriented, in which case I doubt I'd have much of an interest in it. I do gather that the magic system is quite different in pre-4th Edition... but I like the way it is handled in Tal4. I'm thinking that outside of some pre-written spells that I want to allow magic-users to come up with spells and effects on the spot (within reason). Malleable/creative magic sounds very interesting to me even though I know Tal4 isn't suppose to work like that. @DangerDwarf: I'm pretty excited about it, myself. I think I'll have the balance issue covered... thus thwarting the foreseeable abuse of Thrall Warriors, Sauran Gladiators, Kharakhan Giant, etc...

Have you used The Menagerie? I'd like to know how the monster entries are handled... The monster entries in the book are incredibly easy to read and it is my hope that The Menagerie doesn't complicate things... Did your GM make up a lot of monsters, or did he/she use the entries in the book? They are scattered all over the place after all. @_@
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:20 am

Quote:
What doesn't Tal4 have that is in the original vision?

Its not a lack of material but a girth of it. Sometimes, less is more.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:24 am

I'm the forever CK in my groups McLeod and for Tal4 I use a lot of NPC's over actual monsters. But, the menagerie book doesn't add anything more difficult in presentation then the core book.

MacLeod · Post by **MacLeod** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:30 am

I know how that feels. That's cool though... I know my group will want some semblance of D&D with crazy monsters and stuff at some point, so's I just want to be ready to deliver when it happens. Not to say that I don't love throwin' in weird stuff from time to time. I don't think it would be hard to convert D&D 3.5 monsters either.
@Serlean: Really? Hm. I haven't seen the original material but while each region has plenty of information about them... I feel that many details could have been added to truly flesh out the areas and their inhabitants. In that regard, I'm happy they didn't because I'd like some wriggle room for creativity.

I wonder if it would be insane to make a varying DR system...? My original idea might be too number crunchy for some though. Perhaps an altered Action Table based on percentages or fractions... obviously, values would have to be calculated before hand. At bare minimum, I wouldn't mind a 3/4 in there instead of Zero+Mishap, Zero, Half, Full, Full+Wound.
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skathros · Post by **skathros** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:50 pm

I've been a Tal FANatic since the Chronicles of Talislanta, followed by 1st ed. Talilanta is one of the 2 games for which I bought everything, through every edition (the other being MERP). That's how much I love this crazy little wierd game! I've gotta agree with Serl, though (first time for everything, i suppose ), sometimes, less is more!

Previous editions gave you this strange and wonderful setting, but did so in managable, bite-sized portions. 4E, OTOH, just tries to feed you the whole, bewildering thing in one large spoon-full. Doesn't bother me, because I discovered Tal little by little, as it was being released. I wonder if tis might be "too much" for new-comers to Talislanta.

Personally, I like that some archtypes are...well...crappy. I know the new trend (new being relative) is for everything/everyone to be balanced. I'm more put off by this trend's incessant need for sameness and balane than I am to the incluion of some crappy archtypes/classes/races.

If you want to tinker with the OMNI system, why not give the OMNI System rulebook a look (the black, generic book put out by MP). It has rules for creating your own archtypes, which is neat.

Lucifer_Draconus · Post by **Lucifer_Draconus** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:08 pm

I love Tal but none of my friends were into it so I never got to play it. I'd love to get Tal4 just to have it. But finding a affordable copy is a problem.

I only have the D20 version. I got it as a possible entry point into Tal4 or Tal5. But by the time I was going to buy it Morrigan went wonky =(
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