Maxing HD rolls

mr_pony · Post by **mr_pony** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:56 pm

Hey all, I'm new to C&C (went with it over alternatives because minis and mountains of rules ain't for me), and pnp rpg'ing in general, as are my players, and I was wondering how people handle their HD rolls.

My players were rolling, and the barbarian got a 3, while the cleric got an 8. To make everyone happy, I just let them max that roll. I've also been maxing monster hit dice to compensate: is this a good call? This seems to make 4+ HD monsters absurdly tough, and I'm not sure it's optimal. The players (only 3 for now, others are home for break while we finish theses...yay) have averaged one incapacitation per encounter, and that might be a little too brutal.

On the other hand, I'd hate to make encounters too easy. I already let the illusionist's light-related spells distract zombies, and there's been no player death yet, so this might be just right.

I've seen a couple houserules that maxroll hit dice for the first few player levels, and for players alone, but that seems like it'd make 1-2 HD encounters too easy. Anyone know a good solution? I could just average roll all HD after the first level, which player's could tolerate, and then roll all HD for monsters after the first, but I bet there's something wrong with that course of action too. Any suggestions?

Aside: Playing C&C has been a lot of fun, with almost no need to look any rules up, and the ad hoc campaign setting keeps expanding into a bigger fantasy world without my really trying.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:25 pm

I give whatever HP I feel are needed to monsters in order to help keep them alive long enough to be a challenge. When I want them to go down easy I give them minimal HP (kind of like the mook rule in 4E, but I've been doing that for over 20 years).

A house rule that has worked in giving PC's a high average HP rather than low is to allow re-rolls.

d4 re-roll all 1's

d6 and d8 re-roll all 1's and 2's.

d10 re-roll all 1, 2, and 3's

d12 re-roll all 1 to 4's.

This has resulted in typical results of:

d4 usually gets 3 HP

d6 and d8 usually get a 4 (d6) and 5 (d8)

d10 usually gets around an 8

d12 usually gets around an 8.

Now these are not mathematically averaged, these are just the numbers I see most often.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:17 pm

Well, maxing HD all around won't hurt really hurt things but I do hear what you're saying. What I've done the last campaign I ran is allow the max hit points out at 1st and 2nd levels. After that... it's pure rolling.

This increases survivability at the lower levels and worth considering depending on the number of characters in the party.

As for the critters, this will vary depending on the challenge I want to give them. Often, I do 75% of max.

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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:22 am

Welcome to the Crusade, mr_pony! Good to see you chose C&C and happy to hear you are enjoying yourself!
As far as maxing rolls, go, I don't know if I'd do it, personally. But if you wish to do that, go ahead!

One things I thought of doing once was to give them a reroll for 500 xp. If they chose to reroll their hit points they would take a 500 xp penalty. Or you could make it a percentage cost, or maybe even 100xp per level, or anything like that. Something that will give them the chance to reroll (if you want them to have a chance) but make sure they know there will be consequences. If you do an xp penalty, just do it at the end of the next session, not right away, or the die their rolling for new hit points might be lost with an XP loss.
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Hrolfgar · Post by **Hrolfgar** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:56 am

I give the PC's max hit point (+ con bonus) at 1st level. They have to roll after that. It does give them a bit of an edge at 1st level against low level encounters, but cuts down characters dying due to a bad die roll a little bit.

Maxing out the monster hit dice will make them tougher for certain, I usually set the points at average for most encounters. I set them at or near maximum for the " tough " encounters. For random or made on the fly encounters I let the dice decide.

Actually I wouldn't mind making the players roll at 1st level , but they complain too much already.

Jonathan of White Haven · Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:24 am

I do what Hrolfgar does--max HP + CON bonus at 1st level, roll your own after that.

And, being the generous, giving person that I am, I also allow re-rolls on CLW spells that come up a "1". Potions are straight up, though. You get what you get.
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Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:41 pm

I allow max hit points at first level, after that they roll. I have stated this to my players but I will not allow them to fall below 50% of their max hit points, so a player who rolls 1's for hit points a few times in a row will get a bump.
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Relaxo · Post by **Relaxo** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:03 pm

I was going to say, and you can see it above, that most people max HP at first level, then roll.

I like treebore's rerolling 1's and so on, because, honestly, gaining 1 hp when you level up just sucks... but the counter argument, is you have to play smart and not charge into every available battle.. life is rough, why shouldn't RPGs be?

(because it's a game and it should be fun is why...)

It's all personal preference.

GameOgre · Post by **GameOgre** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:13 pm

I use the following.

Max hp at first level.

At least 1/2 of max min 2-5th.

6+ What ever the character rolls.

This lets them have a pretty good mix of hp and stops the one hit warrior issue while at the same time give a healthy range of hp's.
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Aladar · Post by **Aladar** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:27 pm

I also allow max hit points at first level, plus CON bonus, after that they roll for their HPs for each level. Monsters, I just roll their HPs, no maxing. I think this give the PCs a little edge, and they need it.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:06 pm

Players roll. Monsters get max.
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sgaff24 · Post by **sgaff24** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:26 pm

Hi, new here just picked up the books last week.

As far as HP go what we do is max at 1st level, and roll every level after.

The difference is that the player rolls and I roll behind a screen. The player then decides which roll to choose, he is then stuck with the results.

csperkins1970 · Post by **csperkins1970** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:35 pm

mr_pony wrote:
Hey all, I'm new to C&C (went with it over alternatives because minis and mountains of rules ain't for me), and pnp rpg'ing in general, as are my players, and I was wondering how people handle their HD rolls.

At 1st level all PCs get maximum hit points. Afterwards they roll. What I do to mix things up is have them roll for hit points, while I roll behind the DM screen.

I give them the choice of taking their roll or mine. They aren't allowed to peek and have to take my roll if they choose it over their own.

mr_pony · Post by **mr_pony** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:09 pm

Thanks all for the affirmation (I maxed at 1). I was afraid maxing at 1 might make weinies out of my players, but even maxing my monsters, it seems to have panned out...haven't killed one yet.

Didn't realize there were so many ways to roll for hp, either.

imneuromancer · Post by **imneuromancer** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:12 pm

You can't go wrong with 1/2 hit dice+1 per level

(((0.5*$MAX_PER_DIE)+1)*$Hit_Dice)

4d8 monster? 1/2 of d8=4. Add one is 5. times hit dice of 4 is 20.

You could also look at the multiplier like the 1st ed AD&D did dragons:

(for d8 hit dice)

1- child

2- young

3- sub-adult

4- wimpy

5- average

6- above average

7- tough

8- bad to the bone

then just multiply the hit dice by how tough they should be and voila'! instant hit points!

Or you can just roll them. YMMV.

ThrorII · Post by **ThrorII** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:38 pm

I've become a fan of the 'safe and steady' approach for PCs. Max hp at 1st level, 1/2 hit die at 2nd level-and all even levels, 1/2 hit die +1 at all odd levels after 1st.

This allows for a consistant 'average' for players, while boosting 1st level. If players want to roll for hp's after 1st level, then they get what they get, and all hp rolling is done at the table.

phadeout · Post by **phadeout** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:05 pm

I do basically what Treebore does but:

1d4, reroll 1's

1d6, reroll 1-2's

1d8, reroll 1-3's

1d10, reroll 1-4's

1d12, reroll 1-5's

It's generous, but still random, giving above average, but not maximum HPs.
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Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:52 pm

phadeout wrote:
I do basically what Treebore does but:

1d4, reroll 1's

1d6, reroll 1-2's

1d8, reroll 1-3's

1d10, reroll 1-4's

1d12, reroll 1-5's

It's generous, but still random, giving above average, but not maximum HPs.

Another option instead of a reroll, is a minimum such as,

d4 all 1's are treated as 2's

d6 all 1's and 2's are treated as 3's

d8 all 1-3's are treated as 4's

d10 all 1-4's are treated as 5's

d12 all 1-5's are treated as 6's
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csperkins1970 · Post by **csperkins1970** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:55 am

Maliki wrote:
Another option instead of a reroll, is a minimum such as,

d4 all 1's are treated as 2's

d6 all 1's and 2's are treated as 3's

d8 all 1-3's are treated as 4's

d10 all 1-4's are treated as 5's

d12 all 1-5's are treated as 6's

I like this and may have to consider using it in the future.

Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:15 pm

csperkins1970 wrote:
I like this and may have to consider using it in the future.

I like this more than a straight reroll, I hate seeing players get real low hit point rolls, but it never seemed right that two players with fighter PCs each roll for hit points, the first guy rolls a 6, not bad, but then the 2nd player rolls a 1, then rerolls a and gets a 10, it kind of cheat the first player. IMHO.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:49 am

Here is our homegrown system for player character hit dice rolls:

Roll once. Accept the result or reroll.

After you rerolled (once), subtract one. Accept this second roll or reroll again (cannot go back to previous rolls).

Second reroll subtracts two from the result. And on and one until finally your subtracting 7 from an 8-sided die. (minimum hp is 1).

So the barbarian in the first post could have either taken a 3 or rerolled and if he got an 8, like the cleric, he would have to take off 1 and have 7 hitpoints. But if he rolled a 2 (1 hp after subtracting) he could reroll again and minus two.
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mhensley · Post by **mhensley** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:08 pm

For my next campaign, I'm considering letting players roll twice and take the best roll at first level. This should produce decent results without having fighters and barbarians have such a big hp advantage over everyone else.

Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:52 pm

mhensley wrote:
For my next campaign, I'm considering letting players roll twice and take the best roll at first level. This should produce decent results without having fighters and barbarians have such a big hp advantage over everyone else.

I did this a while back, but the campaign was short lived so I never really had the chance to see how it worked in the long run.
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boxcornersdiety · Post by **boxcornersdiety** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:11 pm

sgaff24 wrote:
Hi, new here just picked up the books last week.

As far as HP go what we do is max at 1st level, and roll every level after.

The difference is that the player rolls and I roll behind a screen. The player then decides which roll to choose, he is then stuck with the results.

That's pretty nice actually. Using the (optimal) strategy of taking the DM's roll whenever the player's roll is 50% or less, that would give an average of 5.5 HP per level for a d8 HD (as opposed to 4.5 per level for a straight roll).

There is also the method of rerolling all hit dice every level and only using increases, which I believe comes out to about the same (+1 HP per level) on average and smoothes out the worst rolls.

phadeout · Post by **phadeout** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:49 am

boxcornersdiety wrote:
There is also the method of rerolling all hit dice every level and only using increases, which I believe comes out to about the same (+1 HP per level) on average and smoothes out the worst rolls.

This is another one I like.

Every level, you reroll all your HD, taking the best total.

Works well with a system that maxes out at 10 or so HD (not so well with d20 system).

After you your Max HD, it's another call to allow the player to keep rolling, or call it quits (at 10 HD) for rerolling - making that last roll very important....
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boxcornersdiety · Post by **boxcornersdiety** » Sat May 23, 2009 8:06 am

phadeout wrote:
This is another one I like.

Every level, you reroll all your HD, taking the best total.

Works well with a system that maxes out at 10 or so HD (not so well with d20 system).

After you your Max HD, it's another call to allow the player to keep rolling, or call it quits (at 10 HD) for rerolling - making that last roll very important....

The last roll is not much more important than any other, it just seems to be so. Still, I like the idea of continuing to allow players to roll for HD beyond 10th level. I should work out how much of an increase this yields on average, but my guess is that it is still around 1 hp / level. Of course, eventually you will be very close to the maximum (10 X HD size) so the increment will go towards zero.

HatterMadness · Post by **HatterMadness** » Sat May 23, 2009 11:35 am

My new CK has us roll 2 dice, and take the highest for our HP.

Doesn't always work out. But it gives you a chance.

Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Sat May 23, 2009 1:30 pm

It's been a house rule for near 20 yrs with my games that PCs start with max HD+Con bonus at first level. After that, they suffer with what rolls they get.
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Wulfgarn · Post by **Wulfgarn** » Sat May 23, 2009 5:50 pm

ONe thing that I did in my games is give everyone thier Con in starting HP

As the players level up they gain no additional HP untill thier rolls +con Bonus surpasses thier Con

I also did this for critters....

it worked pretty well

I also up'd damages a bit on weapons and on Magic missiles to compensate (1d6+1) and other low level spells based on the concept that 10 is the base line for hp so a Long Sword does a D10 so a slight shift happened in weapons-

I am a nut for adding weapons and stuff of that nature to the game.

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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Sat May 23, 2009 11:51 pm

Small groups: Max HP's at first and second level. Roll afterwards.

Regular groups: Let the dice fall where they may.

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