The unfortunate Bullywug - a question about IP

slithy · Post by **slithy** » Sat May 16, 2009 8:43 pm

Sorry, another question about Castle Zagyg IP. This time about the new monsters in Appendix C. Who owns the monsters/stat blocks and is it possible to re-use them in other (published, for profit) adventures?

I got thinking about this as I wanted a Bullywug-type monster for a new module I am writing. "Bullywug" is WotC product identity, so I can't use that. But Gary and Jeff got around this problem for CZ by making a monster called a Batrachianoid ("Boggiwog"). Reading the description, it's clear that this is a Bullywug in all but name.

So, what happens if I want to have a "Boggiwog" in my adventure? Can I use that name for the monster? Or is that TriGee IP? Do I need to call my monster a Gullybog or something?

What about the monster description/stat block? It's so close to the Bullywug description that it seems to me that the Boggiwog is itself a derivative work. Is it OK to use it?

Reading through CZ Appendix C, there are other creatures which fall into the same category, as converted or renamed D&D monsters: Giant Fire Beetle, Corpse Creeper (Carrion Crawler), Water Whip (Water Weird), Giant Wolverine. (There are also a number of original monsters which to my knowledge have not appeared elsewhere).

Have/will the monsters from Appendix C been published in any other form?

cuchulainkevin · Post by **cuchulainkevin** » Sat May 16, 2009 9:24 pm

Mike Stewart stated up a creature called "Wuggs" in his Verdant Rage module. They were pretty much the same thing as the Bullywugs from FF. Not sure if they are open content from TLG, but you could always ask.
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Keolander · Post by **Keolander** » Sat May 16, 2009 10:24 pm

There are also the Froglins from Blackmoor, which are essentially the same creatures (albeit as a genetic experiment by The Temple of the Frog).
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slithy · Post by **slithy** » Sat May 16, 2009 11:00 pm

Yes, now that I look into this, there have been various other Bullywug conversions. Points of Light (Goodman Games/system neutral) had "boglings". S&W has Ranine. It would be nice if I could use these monsters without contributing Yet Another Name.

What about those Wuggs? Was Verdant Rage set in Aihdre? The Wuggs don't show up in Monsters of Aihdre? Anyone know what the license terms are for using monsters that appear only in a module and not the monster books?

If anyone owns both U3 and CZ:UW, can you post what the differences are between Wuggs and Bogiwogs?

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sat May 16, 2009 11:04 pm

I've always called my bullywugs "Bog Beasts" (from an episode of the old D&D cartoon - I don't think they were made into a D&D creature, IIRC) because for some reason I never liked the name. But yeah, just think up a name and you're good to go!
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun May 17, 2009 11:29 pm

Honestly, if its GG IP, I'd not even take the chance and just leave it alone. Coming up with your own variation is going to be the sensible course in the long run.
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Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Mon May 18, 2009 2:27 am

slithy wrote:
Yes, now that I look into this, there have been various other Bullywug conversions. Points of Light (Goodman Games/system neutral) had "boglings". S&W has Ranine. It would be nice if I could use these monsters without contributing Yet Another Name.

What about those Wuggs? Was Verdant Rage set in Aihdre? The Wuggs don't show up in Monsters of Aihdre? Anyone know what the license terms are for using monsters that appear only in a module and not the monster books?

If anyone owns both U3 and CZ:UW, can you post what the differences are between Wuggs and Bogiwogs?

Verdant Rage was not set in Aihdre, so no Wuggs in Monsters of Aihrde.
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Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Mon May 18, 2009 3:11 am

I have a critter called a Toady, six limbs...and riding lizard-eels. I'll post a link up to it tomorrow for folks interested.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon May 18, 2009 3:34 am

Already have several frog-like creatures, such as the "wugg" and something in M&T II, if it is used, that is.
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slithy · Post by **slithy** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:32 am

Thanks for the pointers everyone.

I would prefer to use an existing critter rather than waste space in the "new monsters" section of the module creating another Bullywug-variant with yet another name, especially as there seems to be a proliferation of Bullywug-variants already. Is there any way to find out for sure if one will be in M&T II, or is there another publicly-available source I can refer to?

James M. Ward · Post by **James M. Ward** » Mon May 18, 2009 11:15 am

I would strongly urge you not to do it. People who own things like Bullywogs don't have to warn you that they own them. Then when people like you use them you get a cease and desist order and your print run goes in the trash. For the twenty minutes it takes to make a new one it is time well spent. Failing that if you can find two references in nongaming material that was printed before the first printing of Bullywog you can use it as long as those references weren't from other WOW material and your version isn't 75% of the WOW version.

Jim "covered in trademark scares" Ward

Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Mon May 18, 2009 12:49 pm

What's wrong with just calling them frogs or toads. Or use some fancy anagram from the scientific name. Like Jim said, it doesn't take much to make a new one - sure beats getting trashed to death when someone comes after you!!
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seskis281 · Post by **seskis281** » Mon May 18, 2009 12:56 pm

All will bow before the glory of the Toad!!!
http://r33b.net/
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slithy · Post by **slithy** » Mon May 18, 2009 1:01 pm

Jim, really appreciate your comments! OK, I may go the route of making up my own creature after all just to be on the safe side!

seskis281 wrote:
All will bow before the glory of the Toad!!!

I'm fairly sure that Hypnotoad's IP belongs to Matt Groenig or one of those guys ... although they seem to be D&D fans, maybe they would authorise a Hypnotoad conversion

Technomancer · Post by **Technomancer** » Mon May 18, 2009 1:28 pm

slithy wrote:
Jim, really appreciate your comments! OK, I may go the route of making up my own creature after all just to be on the safe side!

I nominate the name "froglodyte" for your new creature.

Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Mon May 18, 2009 1:38 pm

froglodyte....*L* what? No croakettes or ribbitters?

Want to really change them a bit, base them off of tree frogs rather than pond frogs.
You're in a swamp with many trees rising from the dark still water...

Everyone watch out for "frogmen" in the water!

...and you're suddenly ambushed from above where the frogmen 'nests' are...

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Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Mon May 18, 2009 1:52 pm

Go0gleplex wrote:
froglodyte....*L* what? No croakettes or ribbitters?

Want to really change them a bit, base them off of tree frogs rather than pond frogs.
You're in a swamp with many trees rising from the dark still water...

Everyone watch out for "frogmen" in the water!

...and you're suddenly ambushed from above where the frogmen 'nests' are...

That's why I like gripplies (1ed AD&D MMII)!
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Sundog · Post by **Sundog** » Mon May 18, 2009 6:47 pm

Croakettes - pure distilled genius.