Hackmaster BAsic Preorder...

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:40 am

Mine came in too, but been too busy to read it, Crusader 19, Labyrinth Lord, HarnMaster, and a few dozen other things I have bought in the last few weeks.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:41 pm

My pre-order arrived last week. I've only run a couple of propped up encounters to learn the combat system. I gotta say, it's A LOT of fun.

The roundless second by second combat system really gets everyone leaning forward trying to bend time with their will when a goblin is going to get his attack in the next second and their character is a second or two behind.

So far all the games have been with Paizo flipmats with coins representing the combatants.

The tone and tenor of the game is just plain fun. I've yet to run a "real" adventure with the game but hopefully that will be remedied tonight. I'm still not 100% sold on the skill system but if it doesn't work out I think I'm going to sneak in some Siege Engine action.

TheMetal1 · Post by **TheMetal1** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:53 am

Yeah I read thru most of it, haven't looked at the skills too indepth yet. Characters are starting at Star Wars Saga Hit points. I do like the Thresh-Hold of Pain rule adn I like the armor rules and the count-up seems fun. In your test runs, how hard was it to keep track of?

Seems easy enough to mix with Siege as well. I would have liked them to use more KODT example scenarios for things, like a skill/trap/secret door vingette, along with a Cleric Turning/spell (healing) and a Mage Spell example. All very easy to do like an extended comic if they would have continued the adventure maybe fighting undead in a dungeon at the end of a trail.

Also would have liked to have seen that same scenario as a strater adventure at the end of the book, along with an appendix. But those are really minor, it reads well and I get it. A bit more crunchy than C&C.

jaguar451 · Post by **jaguar451** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:44 am

So, anyone have any thoughts on this?

I've only been reading the forums and looking at the previews, but does have some interesting stuff (yes, I used to play AD&D.)

The initiative systems seems really interesting, and I like how weapons have differences, armor does Damage Reduction AND make you easier to hit, and that Shields are quite effective. Magic sounds interesting as well.

And exploding dice and threshold of pain just seem a bit too deadly -- and yes, I know there is a reason it's called HackMaster... Just saying for my taste....

And if this is Basic, Advanced must be extra crunchy....

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:22 pm

I thought HMB was supposed to be a box set?
~O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:45 pm

Nope. HMB is just a soft-bound book. Surprisingly thin, too.

Advanced should have a greatly expanded list of classes to choose, many more monsters and magic items, and covering significantly higher level than Basic.

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:47 pm

Omote wrote:
I thought HMB was supposed to be a box set?
~O

Man... that would have been nice -- especially considering the cover art. Unfortunately, it would have brought the price up a good deal more if it did.

Considering the price for a softcover and the number of pages. It sounds like a good enough deal to warrant checking out. Something tells me that was their plan all along.
M
_________________
"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:28 pm

I think the idea of a boxed set was contemplated early on, for about 20 seconds. NEver saw anything officially announcing a boxed set, but I certainly wasn't following this with a magnifying glass at all times either.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:31 pm

I hear the combat system is somewhat unique. Any truth to that?
_________________
If it matters, leave a message at the beep.
Serl's Corner

jaguar451 · Post by **jaguar451** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:54 pm

Based on what I read on the forums....

* Boxed sets were too expensive

* I don't have enought RPG experience to say if the combat is Unique, but it is quite different from what I'm used to (BD&D, AD&D, C&C)

- Initiative is on a tick system similar to Aces & Eigths (?), although not as fine grained as don't have guns

- To Hit is an opposed roll. Defender gets an attack if roll a crit (19 or 20) or the attacker rolls a fumble. Attacker gets extra attack if defender fumbles (or something like that.)

- Defender rolls different dice depending on the situation (flank is d12, I think, rear is d8, d20-4 if sans shield)

- Includes Knockbacks and lying on the ground whimpering if take too much damager from a single blow and fail the save (1/2 CON, so a tough save)

- Exploding dice can really up the damage.... (or to hit / defense -- I think a crit can miss if defender rolls higher)

- Armor as Damage Reduction and easier to hit; Shield is like +10 equivalent to AC! BUT take half damage on a miss when using a shield, and shields splinter on big hits (and save fail)

- Weapons have different properties speeds, weapons that can 'pierce' (not their term) and something else can 'pierce' faster than 'slash' (but less damage, me thinks)

And this is the basic game..... Advanced has more options, and I'm sure I'm leaving out a thing or two....

concobar · Post by **concobar** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:39 pm

I have a couple of copies coming in to my FLGS on friday.
_________________

TheMetal1 · Post by **TheMetal1** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:22 am

Treebore wrote:
I think the idea of a boxed set was contemplated early on, for about 20 seconds. NEver saw anything officially announcing a boxed set, but I certainly wasn't following this with a magnifying glass at all times either.

I actually asked about a box set on the Kenzer forums. You can read it for yourself - Here is the Link:
http://www.kenzerco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43666

Bottom line is that Dave Kenzer said that they do have plans for a box set, but after Advance Hackmaster is released. So it's coming but not for a while. I figure Kenzer & Co should just contact TLG and get their box maker to do the work!

Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:45 am

It's definitely not thin. It's 190 pages

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:55 pm

No box set for HMB... no cash from me. I admit I didn't keep up much with HMB, but when I did about 6 months ago or so there was definitely talk of a box set with the basic game.
Man, from the looks of it Advanced hackmaster is going to be complicated as ballz.

~O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:21 pm

Omote wrote:
No box set for HMB... no cash from me. I admit I didn't keep up much with HMB, but when I did about 6 months ago or so there was definitely talk of a box set with the basic game.
Man, from the looks of it Advanced hackmaster is going to be complicated as ballz.

~O

I'll probably give AHM a whirl but eventually I very may meld the second-by-second combat system with Siege.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:35 pm

It is somewhat telling when a basic version of a game is 200 pages.
_________________
If it matters, leave a message at the beep.
Serl's Corner

Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:59 pm

serleran wrote:
It is somewhat telling when a basic version of a game is 200 pages.

Well, it does have a chapter on dice which doesn't contribute to the system size and it has a Knights of the Dinner Table combat example which takes up a bit of room. The comic strip is worth it as it is very helpful.

But all in all, it's pretty complete even when labeled as Basic. Off the top of my head it's got Quick Char Gen, Full Char Gen, Combat, Skills, equipment, situational stuff such as falling damage and lighting, spell lists, a "basic" bestiary section, etc. So it's pretty complete. In my estimation is strikes a pretty good balance between being a full-on only thing you need to actually play and 'basic'.

jaguar451 · Post by **jaguar451** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:08 pm

I think 70 beasts, 5 levels of Cleric spells, 5 levels of Wizard spells (plus Cantrip equivalents), includes a skill system, ....

Some download info at http://www.kenzerco.com/product_info.ph ... cts_id=670 , inc. Table of Contents, Index, Preview, Combat Example (above mentioned Knights of the Dinner Table strip), ...)

Although still waiting to hear if anyone who plays C&C has tried HMB.....

Galadrin · Post by **Galadrin** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:54 pm

I play both C&C and HMb. Here's my review:
http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14376.phtml

Did you have a question?

Coleston the Cavalier · Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:11 am

So is the basic version just the core rules, classes and races of Hackmaster - I mean, the Advance version will just go up in levels and provide more classes and critters and such - right?
_________________

John Adams

TheMetal1 · Post by **TheMetal1** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:32 am

Coleston the Cavalier wrote:
So is the basic version just the core rules, classes and races of Hackmaster - I mean, the Advance version will just go up in levels and provide more classes and critters and such - right?

Yeah, that's my take on it from what I've read. AHM should have a bunch more rules, spells, classes (going all the way up to level 20), etc. All of it is supposed to be fully compatible with HMB, so I imagine to a certain extent it you'll be able to plug and play a lot of stuff, which you could do with HM4E anyway. As far as critters are concerned, I suspect we'll see a Hacklopedia of Beasts verses them being included in the AHM book. But a lot we'll just have to wait and see.

Personally what I'd like to see them do is sometime in the fall is, instead of your regular Knights of the Dinner Table issue, they publish Hackmaster Expert which adds in Levels 6-10 for the 4 classes, and adds a few more rules and maybe a short Isle of Death Adventure.

Then maybe late winter, they do it agin for Level 11-15 for the 4 classes, a few more rules maybe on Strongholds and kingdoms, along with some higher level monsters and publish it as Hackmaster Companion.

And of course lastly, they publish in the spring Levels 16-20 (or maybe just 19) for the 4 classes again, highlighting higher level play, Seiges, artifacts, epic level monsters, etc. and publish it as Hackmaster Masters

This allows for people with HMB to go up levels verses having to wait for AHM to come out and they get player feedback/play testing on it quaterly as folks incorporate some of the rules, before AHM comes out. I think they were going to release at some point levels 6 thru 10 in a KODT anyway, I just think doing it this way in Magazine style of the KODT would be a lot of fun, and give a nod to the BECMI set of D&D.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:37 pm

Thanks for the review. The game sounds interesting, but I think I might wait for AHM to read into the game. BTW, when the heck is AHM supposed to debut?

~O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Galadrin · Post by **Galadrin** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:54 am

Coleston the Cavalier wrote:
So is the basic version just the core rules, classes and races of Hackmaster - I mean, the Advance version will just go up in levels and provide more classes and critters and such - right?

Yep, you got it. Advanced HackMaster will add more classes, more playable races and 20 (or perhaps 30) levels (instead of Basic's 5). The rules will be a good deal more crunchy (we can expect critical hit tables, fatigue, morale etc) but built up on the sleek, light framework of HackMaster Basic.

Omote wrote:
BTW, when the heck is AHM supposed to debut?

One year : /

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:51 pm

Thanks for the review. Hopefully in the coming weeks I will get some time to sit down and read my copy and then get in a game or two.

Definitely some rules ideas I am going to steal, if I don't love the game itself.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

concobar · Post by **concobar** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:47 pm

Having played with the rules a bit it seems like anyone who runs a campaign will have their players hit lvl 5 well before AHM is released. Lets say you play one time per week for around 4 hours that is still quite a lot of exp earned even if you halved the book listed exp values.
_________________

Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:09 am

concobar wrote:
Having played with the rules a bit it seems like anyone who runs a campaign will have their players hit lvl 5 well before AHM is released. Lets say you play one time per week for around 4 hours that is still quite a lot of exp earned even if you halved the book listed exp values.

That's assuming that the PCs live long enough. muahahahaha

concobar · Post by **concobar** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:29 am

true....
_________________

qstor · Post by **qstor** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:55 pm

I ordered a copy yesterday. It looks a bit like OD&D.

Mike
_________________
"I am a Ranger. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge, and no one may pass. We live for the One we die for the One"

Marcus B5

concobar · Post by **concobar** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:08 am

qstor wrote:
I ordered a copy yesterday. It looks a bit like OD&D.

Mike

It feels a lot like AD&D to me. combat runs faster than I expected and I have had a lot of fun building characters with all the fiddly BP rules. I have a Fighter who is skilled at picking pockets and hiding.
_________________

jaguar451 · Post by **jaguar451** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:37 am

I got the book on order....

OD&D cover, AD&D rules from what I can tell....

Once the C&C CKG comes out, gonna be interesting mix & match of rules from various products.... Who needs to play when can create houserules using ideas from 4e, C&C, HMb, and S&S....