Creating Experienced Characters for C&C...

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:49 am

When creating characters of 2nd or higher level, what do you lot think would be the right amount of gold, equipment or magic items to give to such an experienced character.

I thought half their XP in GP, allowing them to buy magic items at their GP cost, but then I also thought allowing them to buy magic items at the XP level of the item in question might work better.

Any other suggestions...?
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue May 26, 2009 4:20 am

I do this....

Level = Treasure Type.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:41 am

I don't know if there's a "hard and fast" rule for this, Luther. I mean we all might have an idea of what we'd do, but I guess it all depends on the person. When I do NPCs, I personally try to match the power of an NPC to the power level of PCs (in regards of magic items and treasure). If it's PCs that are being constructed, I just play it by ear, and it all depends on how powerful you want the characters to be. For 4th level characters, for example, I'd probably give 1 or 2 items, depending on the class - wizards or other more "prolific" classes might get one, where others would get two. But it also depands on how much or many items I want them to have, too. I try to think to myself, "if I ran these characters from 1st level, how much wealth would they have?" And then I go from there.

That's not to say that that serl's method wouldn't work, and maybe it's me, but sometimes I like a little more control than flat percentages.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:52 am

I just kinda eyeball it and ensure to keep a bit of randomness involved. Players cherry picking items for the characters doesn't sit well with me when th rest of the group is making do with what they find while adventuring.

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:24 pm

I know there's no set rule, I'm just trying to suss out what would work best. Serl's answer seems to be ideal for the very reason DD said: it's random and I like a bit of randomness. Also, I looked at the Treasure Type table and realized that the Item XP Cap can keep it from getting too out of control.

The only question remaining is how tightly does the LVL=TT comparison work? Looking at the monsters in the same book, it maps pretty well, with most monsters having the same TT as their HD, but then, there are others that have a TT 1 point higher or lower than their HD and some, like Dragons, that are all out of sorts with the table. Not to metion the fact that the TT only goes up to 18.

Despite that, I think it's probably good for a start and beats what I was doing. Any other suggestions...?
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Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:41 pm

Give them normal starting gold and no magic items, let them earn them.
It's very rare that I need to create higher level characters other than NPCs, and those I just eyeball. Serls suggestion of treasue type does seem like a good place to start.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:00 pm

Wasn't there guidelines given in a previous Crusader article? Written by Mike Stewart if I'm not mistaken...

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Luther · Post by **Luther** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:31 pm

Maliki wrote:
Give them normal starting gold and no magic items, let them earn them.
It's very rare that I need to create higher level characters other than NPCs, and those I just eyeball. Serls suggestion of treasue type does seem like a good place to start.

Well, there are three reasons in my campaign.

1. Players have died with regularity in the Caves of Chaos and the low level threats are running out, leaving only the high level threats that are a bit much for a party of 4 1st level characters.

2. My players have spent two adventure modules at level 1-3 (B1 & B2) and I want the characters to be high enough level to move on to a more challenging module when this one is done, so I'm keeping the average party level as a constant when new characters are created. Typically, I start the new characters at just the other side of that level, so they have to earn their way back to the average, but I don't want a level disparity of more than a level or so.

3. The game is clearly designed so that a 3rd level character is that level not only in HP, BtH, Abilities and so on, but in equipment as well. Magical treasure, in particular, is important to a higher level character's survival, so to start a player at 3rd level with only the starting amount of career gold is hobbling them considerably in D&D-esque games like C&C. Although the disparity isn't so great as characters in the 6-20 range, it's still there and a 3rd level character should at least have some Expert weapons if not one or two minor magic items.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Tue May 26, 2009 7:05 pm

Completely understandable, Luther. I haven't had anyone die in my games lately, but I try to have a new character come in slightly less "tricked out" than the exiting character was. I also have the new character come in a level or two below the lowest party member, which is good reason for the reduction in swag. But even when I play 3.5, which does actually have a chart for such cases, I don't always go by that recommendation and usually do what I need/want to do.

But yeah, TT might work for a quick determination.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue May 26, 2009 7:17 pm

I can tell you how I have handled it.

First I have them be what ever I think would be a substantial number of XP's behind the rest of the party. Not necessarily that "1 level lower" crap. Like for my 9/10th level game I have had new PC's start at 50,000 XP behind the "original" PC's still in the game.

As for gold/magic, well, I don't want them to be too much behind the PC's, especially in actual magic. So I will say: "You have a + "X" weapon and +"X" armor, bracer, whatever, and you can have 3 miscellaneous magic items of 25,000 GP or less, for each items value, not total. You can also have 8 potions."

If they are a spellcaster I may give them a wand or two, or a staff, instead of the weapon. If a Cleric/Druid I will likely stay with the weapon.

So over all, just look at what the normal PC's have, and if its a new player, put them sufficiently behind to feel like they are behind. If its a regular player replacing a dead PC I let them replace it with a new character on par with the old one, including XP's. Thats because I have thsi wierd idea that if the player put in the time to get a character with "X" XP's, they should still be allowed to play a character of "X" XP's. Unless they died due to stupidity. Then I might punish them with lower XP's.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue May 26, 2009 7:20 pm

Now, I will say this -- if I get really crappy results, I will ad hoc it on a whim. For example, a 15th level wizard probably has some scrolls, and maybe a few potions... but, he doesn't "just get" a staff of the magi... unless I want him to have one.
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mordrene · Post by **mordrene** » Tue May 26, 2009 9:39 pm

i have used the tables from the first edition dmg and it works great.