Local Reaction to the new look of C&C books

Jynx · Post by **Jynx** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:23 pm

Hi!

I just wanted to pass on some feedback I got from a friend and some people at a local store regarding the new look of the books.
It's bad news...
My friends'"first reaction was 'Eeee... gods! That's one ugly book" to which he quickly put it back and picked up some other rpg. He didn't even open it. Don't judge a book by it's cover, I know... I know..., but people WILL!

I asked what he didn't like about it and he said the color is awfull and he didn't like the art very much. There were others in the store next to us who chuckled at it as well. It appears as if it's not a hit with those that I've seen, except for us who already like the game.

Persaonlly, and honestly, I was just a tad dissapointed myself. I don't know if it's because of the reaction by the people standing next to me, but that's how I felt at that moment.

I'll still get a copy of all the books.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:29 pm

That honestly surprises me. I think the new look is pretty damn cool.

HatterMadness · Post by **HatterMadness** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:44 pm

Huh, That is odd. I think the new ones look pretty good. And I think they have a pretty good "drawn the eye" style. Something that makes them stand out on the shelf.

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:51 pm

Hehehe... did you go to Le Valet? I heard they were in and was thinking of picking up a copy.

To be honest, the first moment I saw the green I didn't really like it either. Don't get me wrong, I like green. But it looked like that shade of green that is... well... putrid. Or some other level of unpleasant.
I grew to like it though.

However, there are bound to be those who will have a negative reaction much like a few of the users here were vocally opposed to the red/gold scheme. The McDonald's edition I believe some people called it? Others mentioned it resembled too much like the Exalted books.

I still think a different shade might have worked better but let's face it, the Troll Green (as I now call it) is pretty distinctive.
M
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Jynx · Post by **Jynx** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:18 pm

Yes it was at Le Valet... home to the die hard 3e/4e/MTG crowd.

BTW - Please don't shoot the messenger!
You got to look at it this way... froget you are already a C&C fan. Forget you already have the yellow books and this IMHO is much better than those. Also forget your resentment (if any) towards 3e/4e books. Bottom line, that's the 'standard' people are use to now and they are pretty books with lots of 'eye candy'. All I'm saying is to attract the non C&C gamers, the books need alot more eye candy and you've got to stop looking at it from within our little box. Look at it from the outside in, as a potential new customer.

Anyhow... it just sort of highligts my frustrations with the game in that I can't get people (except for the already converted C&C gamers) to accept the new game in any shape or form. Having a less than appealing cover makes it even more difficult to reach potential newbies.

And yes... the green just looks bad in comparison to other books put side by side. Even non WOTC books!

So far all the feedback I've read on the boards are from, well... C&C fans, so there is no surprise that people here like it. What's not to like? It's a nice cover and a great resource for any C&C CK.

Again... Please don't shoot the messenger!
I'll keep on crusading, and try to convert the non belieivers.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:22 pm

Troll Lord Games needs to make a new adventure, in a purple cover, called Keep on the Chooglin'.
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:49 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
That honestly surprises me. I think the new look is pretty damn cool.

Doubletrue

PS- Whats up with you and Troll Con, DD?

shadoes · Post by **shadoes** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:56 pm

can;t please all the people all the time. Just a plain fact.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:43 pm

Hmm, the first thing I liked about the new covers was the color selection. I think it makes the books look classy.

-O
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Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:55 pm

What....not Assault on the Troll Lords? There's a module that would get notice. Trying to recover the Holy Duct Tape of Antioch....

*checks meds again*
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:13 pm

Yeah, green is a hard color to please people with. Generally I hate green. Still, I prefer this shade of green to the McDonalds red and gold it was before.

Besides, if they didn't like the art they either have bad taste, or are such die hard "purists" of 4E/3E that they will create reasons not to like something. So personally I doubt the green was the real reason, they already had their minds made up and just jumped on the most obvious reasons to give in order to not reveal their elitism. That is my personal opinion/bet of the true reasons behind their reactions.
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:26 pm

Soooooo greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen.

/Chowder

Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:26 pm

Seriously, I don't have a problem with the new covers being green...or even the shade of green and the artwork is cool. Even if I did like the old covers better.

just can't expect to please everyone or the books would be like TV Guide...one of four collectable covers... d'OH! ><
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Ace of Swords · Post by **Ace of Swords** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:15 pm

I am not a fan of the new color. i did buy a new M&T to support the 4th crusade! (plus yellow mold)

The book is kind of growing on me, but most first reactions i have seen were 'ugly book'.

Troll Lords can not put these 4th crusade books out fast enough for me.

I love the system and the siege engine is so classy and seemless.

any way... good content , but i may slip cover it.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:27 pm

Breakdaddy wrote:
PS- Whats up with you and Troll Con, DD?

Two fronts.

1st. My hospitalization was EXPENSIVE.....although that was a minor kink. I figured if nothing else I'd just crash in my car for the weekend. No biggie.

But...

2nd. I'm also on duty that weekend. Again, not a huge deal but one of my Sgts. requested that time off to go to Washington so I signed off on his request. My peoples' time off comes first. Especially considering I've been on medically or 2 months.

My wife is kinda bummed because she knows had bad I wanted to go but hey, that's how it goes some time.

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:40 pm

I picked it up... (after weighing in a few other options). For me it wasn't a question of if but when.

As I mentioned before, I got used to the cover. Though I'm not sure if Green was the best way to go, I think that now that I've seen the book and held it in my hands, I do like it.

I think a detriment to the green is the outline of the continents in this case. Bolder or more detailed continent outlines or borders of countries (much like the older map back drop) might have appeared better. Only a slightly darker shade of green for these outlines might have been sufficient to keep it from being 'distracting'. Or maybe some other 'backdrop' in the green to create a different sort of texture.

Now that the book is on my shelf, I was surprised to notice that 'Castles & Crusades' is not written on the spine of the book -- just the title is.

The only glaring thing about the cover is the unfortunate typo in the back...

M
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:12 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
Two fronts.

1st. My hospitalization was EXPENSIVE.....although that was a minor kink. I figured if nothing else I'd just crash in my car for the weekend. No biggie.

But...

2nd. I'm also on duty that weekend. Again, not a huge deal but one of my Sgts. requested that time off to go to Washington so I signed off on his request. My peoples' time off comes first. Especially considering I've been on medically or 2 months.

My wife is kinda bummed because she knows had bad I wanted to go but hey, that's how it goes some time.

Well, its pretty beat that you cant come, but I guess thats how it goes eh?

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:41 pm

What?! Peter Bradley's covers are awesome.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:06 am

CharlieRock wrote:
What?! Peter Bradley's covers are awesome.

I agree.

Seeing what Jynx said, I can see a couple things. First, they are fans of 3rd, 4th, and MTG - they're used to over-the-top art work with names they recognize. I'm not knocking Peter, but people who follow those aforementioned games probably know little of him. And the color. While I and others like it, it's something they're not used to. 4e books splash color all over the book, with the funky out-of-whack style art fans of those systems are accustomed to.

I think the art on the front is great. I like the basic look and layout of the book. Remember, those people are different beasts that like a different style book from a different game. I laugh at the new 4e book covers when they come out, if it makes anyone feel any better.
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K2h2m3 · Post by **K2h2m3** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:52 am

Two of my group of eight didn't like the color or it's unpleasant distinctions. All eight liked the art. I will also say it definitely served it's purpose of standing out on a shelf. Especially when all you can see is the spines at my FLGS without pulling them out.

Sundog · Post by **Sundog** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:58 pm

I like green. I prefer a darker, holly-green or racing green, but green is good. Green is calming. It is rich, verdant, viridian and probably a few other things beginning with "v".

I still prefer the old look, but these are growing on me a bit. I'm sure that when I come to replace my current books, I will not shudder.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:14 am

*shrugs* This new printing design seems to be restocking and selling faster than the last ones. I haven't seen a single negative reaction to the design in my local circuit. And these folks I know are bluntly honest.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:24 am

gideon_thorne wrote:
*shrugs* This new printing design seems to be restocking and selling faster than the last ones. I haven't seen a single negative reaction to the design in my local circuit. And these folks I know are bluntly honest.

That's good news about it selling.

I didnt like the cover to Mutants & Masterminds. Either edition. Games good. Better art on the inside pages. Cover needs to be sent back to the drawing board.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:17 pm

Well, hopefully anyone interested in this game can "suffer" past the cover and get to the goodness - then I'm sure it won't matter if they like the cover or not!
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Sir Ironside · Post by **Sir Ironside** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:38 pm

I think the C&C covers hold up quite well.

Sundog · Post by **Sundog** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:25 pm

I must say, the new PHB art is very good. I never thought I'd see something better than that poor afflicted knight, but this does it. Just a pity I got a 3rd print not long ago; the quality of these books means that It'll be quite a while before I need another one.

As for the M&T, well, I still prefer the original art, though there's certainly nothing wrong with the new one. The original seemed to dwell equally on its themes of both monsters AND treasures, while the new one concentrated fully on the former. Smashing horse, though.

Comparing with the D&D books, the armour that Peter draws is far less silly.

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:19 am

Sir Ironside wrote:
I think the C&C covers hold up quite well.

You're preaching to the choir, good man!

Sundog wrote:
As for the M&T, well, I still prefer the original art, though there's certainly nothing wrong with the new one. The original seemed to dwell equally on its themes of both monsters AND treasures, while the new one concentrated fully on the former. Smashing horse, though.

You know, I haven't really thought about ti too much, but I think I like the old art better, too. Not that this art is bad or anything.

Quote:
Comparing with the D&D books, the armour that Peter draws is far less silly.

Agreed!
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:05 am

Normally I love spikes. I'd put spikes on birthday cake if I could. But those other books the dudes were too spikey. Even the dragon. It's like Rob Liefeld and his utility pouches. They're everywhere and spreading.
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Zebulon · Post by **Zebulon** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:58 am

I don't like 4e's art with its silly anime look, I much prefer Peter's art. Now that said, I think the C&C covers look more dull than the 4e ones. It's not the green color, it's overall a combination of static layout, bland green, basic plain bland font, and too small illustrations. For me, the perfect covers were those for AD&D 1e drawn by Easley; I am sure covers in that style could have been made by Peter too. That would have been my wish...

Anyway, right now my suggestion would be: suppress the green color and just keep the gold-yellow for all the cover; enlarge the illustrations by 20% (even if it means loosing some of it on the left and right), put some shading under the logo, and use a much more exciting-medieval looking font.
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tylermo · Post by **tylermo** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:35 pm

"Troll Lord Games needs to make a new adventure, in a purple cover, called Keep on the Chooglin'."

Good one! Perhaps, John Fogerty and Creedence Clearwater Revival can sing the song. Afterall, it was "Keep on Chooglin'".

As for the covers, I like the news, but also liked the old. It'll take me some time to get used to em. The art is great, but not sure about the green. I don't find them off-putting however. Will it turn some people off? Who knows. Most people that were big 3 and 3.5 o-philes probably won't like C&C because it doesn't have feats(and that's just one thing that "might" turn them off). I intend to buy the new printings, particularly the phb(because of the barbarian and druid), and the CKG(well, we haven't even seen a previous edition of this one yet).

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Local Reaction to the new look of C&C books

Local Reaction to the new look of C&C books

Re: Local Reaction to the new look of C&C books

Re: Local Reaction to the new look of C&C books