Consistency in my Gaming

James M. Ward · Post by **James M. Ward** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:03 pm

I need to get some standard formats working in the magazine. Everyone who sends in an adventure gives me different forms of statistics for their NPCs. I then have to spend many minutes changing this or that in the stat blocks and it slows me way down in getting the magazine out. We don't want to do that.

There are also some standard words out there that I use that other people use differently. However, I don't want to rock the C&C empire and cause you fans to go insane. Before I do an editorial on this topic I would like to run some things by you all and give you the chance to add your own points of consistency. Look at my suggestions and comment and feel free to add your own.

James M. Ward -- Managing Editor -- CRUSADER
Mithral not mithril
Role-playing not roleplaying or role playing
Character stat Block
Wren o the Elements (lawful good), 16th level human wizard: HP 51, AC 18 (19), MV 30 ft., primary attributes: intelligence 18, wisdom 16, dexterity 13. He uses a +3 robe of protection, a +5 ring of protection, a +3 staff (1d6 +3), and a +3 dagger (1d4 +3). He uses the following wizard spells: 0-7, 1st-7, 2nd-6, 3rd-6, 4th-4, 5th-4, 6th-3, 7th-3, 8th-2.

*the wizard gets an extra 1, 2, and 3 level spell because of his 18 intelligence.

**the wizards gains +1 on his AC because of his dexterity.

Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:47 pm

Got an example for monsters too Jim.
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James M. Ward · Post by **James M. Ward** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:58 pm

I might have to post a number of these because of the zillions of powers, between the monsters, but let's start here.
Kobold Shaman (lawful evil), HD 4d6, HP 24, AC 15, physical attribute: mental. It wears hide armor and uses throwing daggers (1d4). The shaman can use the following wizard spells: 0-3, 1st-3 and the following clerical spells: 1st-4, 2nd-3, 3rd-2.

The Shaman prefers using spells rather than entering physical combat with a foe. Often times the other kobolds around the shaman will fight harder (+1 on attack and damage) to protect their spiritual leader.
Mummy Shaman (chaotic evil), HD 6d12, HP 72, AC 24, physical attribute: physical. It wears bronze plate mail, bronze armet helm, an amulet of fire protection, and a large +3 mace (1d10 +3), Mummies inspire fear causing a save vs. fear or fight the mummy at a -2 to hit. The mummy can cast the following spells: bane x1, paralysis x2, change self x1, jump x2, spider climb x2, and needle barrage x3. Needle barrage sends out a cloud of projectiles in a 10x10 area for 30 feet doing 6d3 with a save at -10 to half damage.

Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:36 pm

Great. Thanks!
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Post by **Fiffergrund** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:22 pm

I made this sticky for author reference, Jim. Thanks
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:41 pm

Why was this not done two weeks ago when I was trying to finalize a format for the C&C mods for BHP.

Seriously, it's good to see a move to establish a norm.

M
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Frost · Post by **Frost** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:44 pm

Fantastic! Long overdue, in my opinion.
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Sundog · Post by **Sundog** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:57 pm

Should prove useful to anyone trying to write for the magazine.

Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:01 pm

Should be useful for anyone, period.

BTW Jim, I prefer mithril, and vacillate between roleplaying and role playing, though I have used role-playing on occasion.
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:47 pm

I use Adventure Game. But that's just me.
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Sir Ironside · Post by **Sir Ironside** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:40 am

Traveller wrote:
BTW Jim, I prefer mithril, and vacillate between roleplaying and role playing, though I have used role-playing on occasion.

I to prefer mithril and "roleplaying" makes my skin crawl so either role playing or role-playing is fine in my books... so role-playing it is.

Christina Stiles · Post by **Christina Stiles** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:14 pm

Jim, a Style Guide would be great!
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James M. Ward · Post by **James M. Ward** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:41 pm

Christina you are so correct, but I'm worlds away from an official style guide. Steve was kind enough to surface from his design work on the CKG to forward me with the official C&C style. So everyone please concentrate on these two examples as you give me your thoughts.

GIBBERING MOUTHER (This neutral creatures vital stats are HD 4d8, HP

28, AC 19. Its primary attributes are physical. It attacks with 6

biting maws doing 1d10 damage per bite or uses its acidic spittle

inflicting 1d4 damage plus requiring a dexterity save of the victim or

they are blinded for 1d4 turns. Its special abilities are gibbering,

spittle, blood drain, engulf, amorphous and dark vision 60 feet.)

CLERIC (She is a chaotic evil 4th level cleric whose vital stats are HP

17 and AC 14. Her primary attributes are wisdom, intelligence, and

dexterity. Her significant attribute is dexterity 16. She wears leather

armor and a +2 cloak of protection, and carries a +2 mace, scroll of

curse, potion of healing, and 240 gp worth of jewelry and coin.)

Notice from what Steve has given that he doesn't want MV movement stats or to give the character stats in their listing except for the significant attribute. I notice that he doesn't list the spells the cleric could have either. Being a company man, this is the format I want the magazine to use.

James M. Ward

Managing Editor

Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:45 pm

While appreciating the information provided and all...

literary style stat blocks...*shudder*

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dachda · Post by **dachda** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:18 pm

I'm fine with the Steve type stat block, EXCEPT I want a list of spells used by a spellcaster. That saves me a huge amount of time during the game. I don't always have time to go thru the module just before a game session and think up and write down the spells the spell casters have memorized. So I end up slowing combat down by having to flip thru the PHB to decide what spells. This gets even more time consuming when you realize that C&C spells are not just found in the PHB, many are listed as extras in modules, some are in the Black Libram of Natarus, some are in James Mishler's Wilderlands stuff. Spell lists save a CK time!
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:28 pm

Quote:
C&C spells are not just found in the PHB, many are listed as extras in modules, some are in the Black Libram of Natarus, some are in James Mishler's Wilderlands stuff.

This could be exactly why spell lists are not used -- if they were, they would likely only contain spells found in the PHB, as it would be the only assumed work owned. HH material might naturally contain references to Black Libram, but a "general" C&C item should not. This is precisely as it should be, in my opinion, though, a minimum of "spells available" (spell slots per level) would be nice, and in the case of an arcane caster, what is in the spellbook.
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Frost · Post by **Frost** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:36 pm

I'd like spell lists included and that the writer assumed that the reader only has the PHB. Even if the writer did reference other books, I still like spell lists in the stat block. It's quicker to swap out spells from an existing spell list than to generate a whole one from scratch.
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Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:08 pm

[quote="Frost"]I'd like spell lists included and that the writer assumed that the reader only has the PHB. Even if the writer did reference other books, I still like spell lists in the stat block. It's quicker to swap out spells from an existing spell list than to generate a whole one from scratch.[/quote]

That's pretty much how I do it for anything I'm not running myself.
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Christina Stiles · Post by **Christina Stiles** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:37 pm

I'd like to see spells listed, too. In terms of the stat blocks, I did like Jim's format better, but I guess that issue is non-negotiable.
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Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:54 pm

We have a number with spell lists, I'll post an example shortly. What we try to steer away from is any use of the colon or semicolon in the sentences. Just write it like you were trying to explain it to a novice. A new player might be confused by this: Cthulu: AC: 14; BtH: 11; HD: 4,d8(+2 for every even number); HP: 22 (unless its an odd number then insert semi-colon in random spot in this line); PA: S, C, Co.

LOL

When in doubt, just write a complete sentence without acronyms and you will be correct.

Steve
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:00 pm

But; Steve, you don't seem to... quite -- dash 'em right, what with your errata; and lists: this, and that, and those rules.

Makes perfect sense.

Seriously, though, I am a little shocked you would allow CK and not force the mandate of Castle Keeper. We at Domesday are doing that.
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Frost · Post by **Frost** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:17 pm

Here is an honest question that I hope doesn't come across as snippy over the Interwebs (that tends to happen and no snippy-ness is meant here ): Are stat blocks really that confusing? As far as I recall, all my old D&D and AD&D modules have them. They simply included a key at the beginning of each adventure as to what the various abbreviations meant. I really do not mind the narrative approach, but the use of it does perplex me for this very reason.
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:37 pm

Frost wrote:
Here is an honest question that I hope doesn't come across as snippy over the Interwebs (that tends to happen and no snippy-ness is meant here ): Are stat blocks really that confusing? As far as I recall, all my old D&D and AD&D modules have them. They simply included a key at the beginning of each adventure as to what the various abbreviations meant. I really do not mind the narrative approach, but the use of it does perplex me for this very reason.

Too new players, who have had no exposure to gaming, yes. Why make it harder on em than necessary, is Steve's logic.

After all, he is the Decider!
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:11 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
After all, he is the Decider!

That sounds like a bad Spider-Man villian.
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Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:17 pm

serleran wrote:
But; Steve, you don't seem to... quite -- dash 'em right, what with your errata; and lists: this, and that, and those rules.

Makes perfect sense.

Seriously, though, I am a little shocked you would allow CK and not force the mandate of Castle Keeper. We at Domesday are doing that.

I got lazy! hahahah Serleran is a PURIST!!!! HOOZAH

Steve
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Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:28 pm

Frost wrote:
Here is an honest question that I hope doesn't come across as snippy over the Interwebs (that tends to happen and no snippy-ness is meant here ): Are stat blocks really that confusing? As far as I recall, all my old D&D and AD&D modules have them. They simply included a key at the beginning of each adventure as to what the various abbreviations meant. I really do not mind the narrative approach, but the use of it does perplex me for this very reason.

The problem with stat blocks is they have no end. Some or this and some are that. When you start adding things, like spell lists for example, you have to expand your key or expand the block. D20 was a nightmare. A complete nightmare. I don't think any of our stat blocks were dead on, even now I find a colon used here and a semi-colon used in the same place in another one. We got creamed on the online reviews for these things. Casey Christofferson took over these, but even his have inconsistencies... its nuts.

When CC came out, understand the problems and time in for the editors to get those stat blocks right was too much. So we, and by this I mean me, because Davis and Mac opposed it, decided on a literary style.

With this style the expense in time is cut dramatically. The ease of writing a stat block is mind numbing. Just do it in complete sentences. Editing is easier. Plus it has the three ancillary benefits: first, newcomers and by this I mean young kids, aren't put off by algebraic acronyms; Second we step away from the crowd a little bit; third it pushes the under lining theme of THIS fantasy RPG...and this is the most important...this is a game about literary role playing, not rules crunching. And a nice fourth benefit is that it is really, really easy to read for us old timers...because you know and I know that you and I don't really use any of the information in ANY stat block, only the HP and AC for quick reference.

wink:

Hope that explains the logic there....but number three is the most important.

Steve
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Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:29 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
Too new players, who have had no exposure to gaming, yes. Why make it harder on em than necessary, is Steve's logic.

After all, he is the Decider!

Ahhhhh. That made me happy.

Steve
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Frost · Post by **Frost** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:18 am

Troll Lord wrote:
Hope that explains the logic there....but number three is the most important.

Steve

It does indeed. Thank you for explaining it.
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Sundog · Post by **Sundog** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:55 am

Julian Grimm wrote:
That sounds like a bad Spider-Man villian.

Great, now I've got a mental image of Steve in spandex tights. Curse you, Julian Grimm!