Why Education Sucks In America

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:09 pm

This is not a political statement, but one that says we, as Americans (those who are, anyway), are generally stupid... and it is definitely our own damn fault. When a system is broken, it either gets fixed, or it continues to degrade everything that is tied to it... and, when that system is something as fundamental as education, well... you get the drift (or, if you're the typical American, probably not.)
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cuchulainkevin · Post by **cuchulainkevin** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:23 pm

Hmmm, that is a da#n outrage. And I'm a teacher and involved in many union issues.

But alot of that has to do with the nature of big cities:

"Once their hearings are over, they are either sent back to the classroom or fired. But because their cases are heard by 23 arbitrators who work only five days a month, stints of two or three years in a rubber room are common, and some teachers have been there for five or six."

It seems that the city would be wise to add more arbitrators and increase the the number of days that they work. I can't imagine that that would cost more than paying so many people to do nothing all day.

All I can say is that wouldn't happen in my district (I think).
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:39 pm

OK, I'll say it... Fvhkin unions. Unions blow and that is one of the (big)reasons that the car companies in this country are failing.

-O
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Sir Ironside · Post by **Sir Ironside** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:47 pm

It isn't just America, I'm sure stupidity exists all over.

Here this boy got suspended from school because he kept correcting the teacher, when the teacher was teaching them the wrong thing. The school board didn't back down, their reasoning. Though the teacher was teaching the wrong thing it wasn't the boys responsibility to correct the teacher and showed a lack of respect towards that teacher. He should have just accepted What the teacher was teaching.

I shit you not.

Like America, Canada has a number of stimulus programs. Well in Thunder Bay, Bombardier won a contract to build subway cars for Toronto. This contract will give jobs to 300 for a decade. They'll be spending that cash here so even more people will benefit. The deal is that Bombardier, the Ontario government and the Federal Government will pony up one third of the cost. Both Bombardier and the Ontario province got their share ready. Then comes the Federal government, they hedged and finally came out ans said that, THE STIMULUS MONEY SET ASIDE FOR THIS IS NOT ELIGIBLE BECAUSE THE WORK WILL NOT BE DONE WITHIN 2 YEARS. For those who don't quite understand, the Federal Government would be happy to fork over the cash if the contracted work employed people for 2 years. They disqualified Bombardier because the deal was going to give jobs to unemployed people for a shocking 10 years!

Government officials feeding like pigs at the trough with public money, very insincere apologies after they f**k up and only after brutal, dismissive denials... I can go on and on.

What pisses me off the most is the general "sheep" population that gripe about all these abominations but in the very next election, vote the exact same idiots in. No, wonder these idiots are getting more bold and idiotic because they know whatever they do all they have to do is throw a little money this way and all will be forgotten.

I better stop before I rant out of control, I'll just leave you with the top 4 life little things I hate the most.
Insurance CompanyBanksGovernment (Any level I'm equal opportunity.)Lawyers
Yep Lawyers slipped to 4th.
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seskis281 · Post by **seskis281** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:53 pm

Oops.... slipping off into the politics....

PS - Davis is a lawyer and unless I'm mistaken so is Steve's wife....

at least you didn't put them #1.....

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Coleston the Cavalier · Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:58 pm

I love teachers and schools and I try to help them all I can, but they do seem often forget that they have the most powerful union (not run by the mob) in the nation.
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anglefish · Post by **anglefish** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:17 pm

Part of the problem that I have seen is that schools will throw a teacher under the bus and suspend them for anything that smells of lawsuit.

Two examples:

My son is HyperActive and ADD. He will push your patience to the limit. His third grade teacher never laid a finger on him. Yet, some one said that she might have used a ruler on a student's hand and she was suspended, no pay for a year until her case came in for review.

She was taking unemployment because if you try to get another job while under review, you can kiss your career good bye.

The other example was the training I was getting for being a substitute teacher. The instructor, a full time teacher, told us that if kids get into a fight, call the school cop. We can't even break up a fight for fear of a lawsuit.

The real problem with American Education is that the majority of PARENTS, teachers and Admistrators want to get credit for the easy, successful students and want to ignore the tough cases.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:49 pm

When I was a teacher in South Carolina the union was, and still is, a powerless joke. Complete Window dressing with nothing behind it.
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:52 pm

seskis281 wrote:
Oops.... slipping off into the politics....

PS - Davis is a lawyer and unless I'm mistaken so is Steve's wife....

at least you didn't put them #1.....

*chuckles* You're mistaken on both counts actually.
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seskis281 · Post by **seskis281** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:56 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
*chuckles* You're mistaken on both counts actually.

Oops... don't know why I thought that
Well dachda is now, and he's good people
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:01 pm

seskis281 wrote:
Oops... don't know why I thought that
Well dachda is now, and he's good people

So is nwelte, Aramis and Buttmonkey. They are good people too. In my book, at least.
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tylermo · Post by **tylermo** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:31 pm

Another problem in the modern day schools(and this doesn't just apply to some of the much-publicized "big city" districts is the "zero tolerance" factor. Zero tolerance(in some schools) has been applied to drugs, alcohol, weapons, and even fighting. Some of it sounds good on paper, and might even work in some instances. BUT...consider this. Sure, suspend, and/or arrest the student with drugs(marijuana, cocaine, meth, heroin, ILLEGAL prescriptions, and the like). That said, don't suspend the kid who(despite whatever modern-day rules)forgot, and brought his Tylenol or Bayer aspirin to school. On the weapons front,(and I seem to recall these being grounds for suspensions in the late 90's early 2000's) don't suspend a child who brings a two-inch plastic G.I. Joe rifle into a gun-free zone. And, call me crazy, examine the facts before we remove a student who accidently left a fishing knife in his automobile(parked on campus) after a weekend fishing trip. Alcohol is pretty cut and dried I suppose. If you show up drunk at school, dances, games, etc., or have the product(on your person and on campus)...suspension. Let us not forget fighting. I am in no way encouraging fighting in our schools, but there have been, and always will be the bully(who picks on those minding their own business-any of you gamers remember those people? I do.) who doesn't just verbally tease, but sometimes take it to the next level. I had one or two lesser altercations that involved shoving, or back-hand smacking of said jerks(in self defense). One incident(1981) resulted in no punishment for the defender), another only resulted in the loss of a study period in 1982(?), and maybe an office eighth hour in 1988 for your's truly. Nowadays, I(the non-trouble making, minder of his own business) would have been placed in three-day in-school suspension. And, that's for not starting the fight. This is in a small-town district. This is what happens when you adopt zero tolerance. A good friend of mine from my former talk radio audience once said, "Zero tolerance equals zero common sense." If you ask me, the man rolled a 20 on his intelligence. All zero tolerance has done(in my district) has made it a little bit harder for the rich kids to get out of trouble like some of them used to. Let's face it, from(and I'm keeping p@l!+!cs out of this)school boards to city councils, state capitols, and our nation's capitol...it's all about punishing, or restricting the majority(who does the right thing) based on the actions of a few. Nuff said!

dachda · Post by **dachda** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:20 pm

seskis281 wrote:
Oops... don't know why I thought that
Well dachda is now, and he's good people

Thanks for the kind words. I hope I'm living up to them!
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:11 pm

Since this a subject that will inevitably lead me to speak politics I shall refrain and instead post THIS for consideration.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:55 pm

The thing that gets me more riled is not that these thing exist, per se, but the reasons for some of these teachers to be put there... like that lady who supposedly used naughty language when she got scissored by a student. I mean, heaven forbid a tongue slip when you're being shivved by some schoolyard harlot -- "oh, noes my precious little angel, we don't put sharpened metallic incisors into the warm pulsating flesh of others or ourselves. Please cease and desist with any such naughty behavior, or I shall be forced to write on this piece of paper that you did not listen." Jesus. Are we so f'n stupid we have to obey the "law of averages" to such an obscene level?

Yeah, in theory, these things are good -- get horrible teachers away from students before they can cause irreparable harm, like this moron substitute I once had (long story cut short -- he stuffed Kleenex down my throat to stop my cough, despite having been informed it was caused by bronchitis and I needed to take medication, which he kept away from me...) but that doesn't mean they should get paid for it!

If I had the power to revolt (hehe), there would be a storm unlike the world has seen. Too many idiots, and we're out of short buses and gasoline. Time people got left behind.
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Sir Ironside · Post by **Sir Ironside** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:49 am

This is what happens when society fights natural selection.
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anglefish · Post by **anglefish** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:08 am

tylermo wrote:
Another problem in the modern day schools(and this doesn't just apply to some of the much-publicized "big city" districts is the "zero tolerance" factor. Zero tolerance(in some schools) has been applied to drugs, alcohol, weapons, and even fighting. Some of it sounds good on paper, and might even work in some instances. BUT...consider this. Sure, suspend, and/or arrest the student with drugs(marijuana, cocaine, meth, heroin, ILLEGAL prescriptions, and the like). That said, don't suspend the kid who(despite whatever modern-day rules)forgot, and brought his Tylenol or Bayer aspirin to school. On the weapons front,(and I seem to recall these being grounds for suspensions in the late 90's early 2000's) don't suspend a child who brings a two-inch plastic G.I. Joe rifle into a gun-free zone. And, call me crazy, examine the facts before we remove a student who accidently left a fishing knife in his automobile(parked on campus) after a weekend fishing trip. Alcohol is pretty cut and dried I suppose. If you show up drunk at school, dances, games, etc., or have the product(on your person and on campus)...suspension. Let us not forget fighting. I am in no way encouraging fighting in our schools, but there have been, and always will be the bully(who picks on those minding their own business-any of you gamers remember those people? I do.) who doesn't just verbally tease, but sometimes take it to the next level. I had one or two lesser altercations that involved shoving, or back-hand smacking of said jerks(in self defense). One incident(1981) resulted in no punishment for the defender), another only resulted in the loss of a study period in 1982(?), and maybe an office eighth hour in 1988 for your's truly. Nowadays, I(the non-trouble making, minder of his own business) would have been placed in three-day in-school suspension. And, that's for not starting the fight. This is in a small-town district. This is what happens when you adopt zero tolerance. A good friend of mine from my former talk radio audience once said, "Zero tolerance equals zero common sense." If you ask me, the man rolled a 20 on his intelligence. All zero tolerance has done(in my district) has made it a little bit harder for the rich kids to get out of trouble like some of them used to. Let's face it, from(and I'm keeping p@l!+!cs out of this)school boards to city councils, state capitols, and our nation's capitol...it's all about punishing, or restricting the majority(who does the right thing) based on the actions of a few. Nuff said!

Goes back to that "best way to avoid a lawsuit" is to throw somebody, a student or teacher under the bus.

Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:49 pm

Treebore wrote:
So is nwelte, Aramis and Buttmonkey. They are good people too. In my book, at least.

Aw, shucks!

Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:01 pm

Sir Ironside wrote:
This is what happens when society fights natural selection.

People who think this always assume that they'd be the survivors.

Guten Tag, Mein Fruend.

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:05 pm

Orpheus wrote:
People who think this always assume that they'd be the survivors.

Guten Tag, Mein Fruend.

I promise you that I would not be among the first to go.

Sir Osis of Liver · Post by **Sir Osis of Liver** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:23 pm

Breakdaddy wrote:
I promise you that I would not be among the first to go.

What, no bazooka? The conspicuous absence of a flame thrower is duly noted as well. LAW rockets? You're really slacking on your arsenal!

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:31 pm

Ah, it is so good to see the first edition DMG agrees:

"...seeking to promote weal for all actually brings woe to the truly deserving. Natural forces which are meant to cull out the weak and stupid are artificially suppressed by so-called good, and the fittest are wrongfully held back."

Page 23 or so.
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Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:55 pm

serleran wrote:
Ah, it is so good to see the first edition DMG agrees:

"...seeking to promote weal for all actually brings woe to the truly deserving. Natural forces which are meant to cull out the weak and stupid are artificially suppressed by so-called good, and the fittest are wrongfully held back."

Page 23 or so.

Cute.

tylermo · Post by **tylermo** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:33 am

Breakdaddy, that's an impressive collection you have there.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:48 am

tylermo wrote:
Breakdaddy, that's an impressive collection you have there.

Yeah, well that pales in comparison to my single CZ75.
-O
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Sir Ironside · Post by **Sir Ironside** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:40 am

Orpheus wrote:
People who think this always assume that they'd be the survivors.

Guten Tag, Mein Fruend.

Don't assume things.
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:36 pm

Omote wrote:
Yeah, well that pales in comparison to my single CZ75.
-O

Ive got a CZ75b, and its my favorite range gun. I can hit a pretty solid grouping @ 50 yards with it. Better than any other pistol I own, even my "match grade" Springfield XD-M.

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:39 pm

tylermo wrote:
Breakdaddy, that's an impressive collection you have there.

Thanks chief, but thats just a pic I pulled from the web. Rest assured, however, that my actual collection is enough to strike fear in the hearts of any zombies thinking of laying siege to my house
A small selection from my personal stash (only pic Ive got ATM):

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:39 pm

Sir Osis of Liver wrote:
What, no bazooka? The conspicuous absence of a flame thrower is duly noted as well. LAW rockets? You're really slacking on your arsenal!

I think I may have a flamethrower around here somewhere...

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:40 am

Whoever says teachers are underpaid better think again. According to this piece they get paid around $70,000 a year. Even locally they are paid $40-$50,000 a year, withe full benefits (that is just about twice the going average income these parts).
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