Why Education Sucks In America

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:50 am

Breakdaddy wrote:
Thanks chief, but thats just a pic I pulled from the web. Rest assured, however, that my actual collection is enough to strike fear in the hearts of any zombies thinking of laying siege to my house
A small selection from my personal stash (only pic Ive got ATM):

I like revolvers.

I own an auto but it is for work. For home and practice I use the six-shooter.
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Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:33 am

CZ shooters, wow I didn't think there were too many of us around, I've 2 CZ-100 (9mm & 40 S&W)

Quote:
The conspicuous absence of a flame thrower is duly noted as well

Flame thrower, who needs one. They are way to bulky and dangerous. Its better (and cheaper) to steal some of your neighbors gas, mix it with powder soap and have fun!

Quote:
Ah, it is so good to see the first edition DMG agrees:

"...seeking to promote weal for all actually brings woe to the truly deserving. Natural forces which are meant to cull out the weak and stupid are artificially suppressed by so-called good, and the fittest are wrongfully held back."

Page 23 or so.

Serl, Toooo good of a quote! I have to look it up and use it in my next political/society class homework!
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maasenstodt · Post by **maasenstodt** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:10 am

My sole CZ is a 52 (I really like the 7.62x25 round) with a few upgrades. Nice shooter.

Getting back to the topic, the single greatest thing that could be done to improve the quality of learning across this land is to retract the state's claws from it entirely. From funding through taxation to licensing of teachers to mandatory curriculum to obligatory attendance, the entire system is a disaster.

All people, by right, should be free to pursue the attainment of knowledge as they see fit, in a free market, without coercion.
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Unjust laws exist: shall we be content to obey them, or shall we endeavor to amend them, and obey them until we have succeeded, or shall we transgress them at once? -- Henry David Thoreau

Sundog · Post by **Sundog** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:15 pm

Which is all very well until you're smart and born to a dirt-poor family, in which case your potential will go forever unrealised. Back to the soil for you, peasant!

While the initial story appears infuriating, these people have been convicted of NO wrongdoing, and so naturally should be receiving the benefit of the doubt until their cases can be properly heard. Conversely, having more caseworkers to go through the cases would be an improvement, but who will propose the expense necessary to pay for those people?

maasenstodt · Post by **maasenstodt** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:30 am

Sundog wrote:
Which is all very well until you're smart and born to a dirt-poor family, in which case your potential will go forever unrealised. Back to the soil for you, peasant!

Smart, talented, hard working individuals are always in demand. Whether by scholarship, apprenticeship, or some other arrangement, they can find their way, without the blight of coercion.
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Unjust laws exist: shall we be content to obey them, or shall we endeavor to amend them, and obey them until we have succeeded, or shall we transgress them at once? -- Henry David Thoreau

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:34 am

maasenstodt wrote:
Smart, talented, hard working individuals are always in demand. Whether by scholarship, apprenticeship, or some other arrangement, they can find their way, without the blight of coercion.

That's right! Look at Rasputin.
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Sundog · Post by **Sundog** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:42 pm

maasenstodt wrote:
Smart, talented, hard working individuals are always in demand. Whether by scholarship, apprenticeship, or some other arrangement, they can find their way, without the blight of coercion.

History suggest otherwise. Societies with freely-available quality education come up with more new and useful ideas than those which don't. After all, how will anyone know how smart and talented you are when you spend all your time in drudgery? Further, who is this spotter of talent? What do they want? Your happiness as a well-rounded individual? Or a finely-honed set of skills to be used like any other tool?

Good education is the weapon of choice for the enemies of tyranny, which is why so many only want you to be as educated as is useful to them. With no protected right to an education, that's exactly what you'll end up with. Education systems that appear to be failing need to be revised and updated, not done away with entirely. Evolution, not revolution.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:08 pm

Reminds me of a Chinese proverb: Beware he who would withold information from you, for in his mind he deems himself your master/superior (tricky translation).
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James M. Ward · Post by **James M. Ward** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:05 pm

Please let me add fuel to this fire as I substatue taught in 2 high schools, two middle schools, and each of the 1-6th grades at two schools this year. There are many sides to this terrible problem.

We have retarded and unbalanced students that only the law keeps in school. They don't do the work, they disturb the rest, and they must stay because even awful and destructive students must not be left behind.

There are horrible teachers who do little or no work and have five favorite students in their groups of a hundred students taught. When their short comings are brought into the light of day they blame everyone but themselves.

I was subing in the sixth grade and was forced to take a Hispanic student to the office because he continued to call me stupid names and as clearly disrespectful. I was then sued for being a racist by his parents.

Then we have the 85% of the students who want an education and work at it. We also have amazing teachers that are sharp. They are the ones being punished by a system that doesn't give them adequate directions and mission statements.

So I can't blame the school district, or the state, or the teachers, or the students. The system is broken, I don't think it's getting worse, but I know it's not getting better.

Sorry for all the rant.

James M. Ward

tylermo · Post by **tylermo** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:16 pm

Good to hear your view on this topic, James. I hope the racist claims against you(whenever that was) were thrown out by people with common sense. Oh, did I say common sense? The very thing that is oft missing in the modern day zero-tolerance system. You're right about the destructive ones not being left behind(for the most part), but I hope we can put an end to over-restricting the freedoms of the "good" students based on the actions of a few miscreants. Unfortunately, too many people from all over the socio-p0!i+ic@! spectrum believe that kids have changed soooo much over the years(especially in the wicked 1990's and 2000's) that they see fit to demonize with a broad brush. You'd think kids in past decades were little angels to hear people talk. Thus, all of these over-reaching laws, school regulations, and the like. Oh well. Can't wait to send my kids to government scrools.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:35 pm

The enforcement of entitlement is the snapping jaws of a doomed system. Educators are made, in many ways, to embody the movement known as political correctness and act as the stalwarts of conformity -- even the rubrics used to judge another are based on a flat line. If the engine that drives us is to be repaired, it needs to be re-engineered. But, that is not enough because society has accepted "tolerance" as the new God.

Oh well, I'll shut up as this will lead me into a place I don't want to be.
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maasenstodt · Post by **maasenstodt** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:57 am

Sundog wrote:
Societies with freely-available quality education come up with more new and useful ideas than those which don't.

First, "free" education doesn't exist - people are forced to pay for it under pain of seizure of property and imprisonment. For anyone holding the view that coercion, theft, and kidnapping are immoral, this makes state education an intolerable system even before its results are considered. Second, those new and useful ideas have much more to do with an advanced division of labor than a state controlled education regime.

Sundog wrote:
how will anyone know how smart and talented you are when you spend all your time in drudgery?

An excellent observation... of our existing system!

Sundog wrote:
Further, who is this spotter of talent? What do they want? Your happiness as a well-rounded individual? Or a finely-honed set of skills to be used like any other tool?

To be sure, the market can devise ever more methods of finding talented individuals than I can manage, but for those kids whose parents can't afford to educate them, I can imagine a system combining top down and bottom up methods of getting talent into positions where it can succeed. From the top you might have scouts, philanthropists, and headhunters. From the bottom you might have aptitude tests, internships/apprenticeships, and third-party recommendations.

Motives for those looking for talent would vary, depending on whether they are working for profit or charitably. But one thing is for sure: the decision of what makes each person happy and the means to achieve that are not forced upon them by a third party but left to the individuals themselves to decide.

Sundog wrote:
Good education is the weapon of choice for the enemies of tyranny, which is why so many only want you to be as educated as is useful to them.

I agree that a good education threatens tyranny. That's one reason why the state - an entity that claims a rightful monopoly on the initiation of the use of force - is so interested in controlling the education system.

Sundog wrote:
With no protected right to an education, that's exactly what you'll end up with.

I disagree strongly that any positive right - "right to health care," "right to education," etc. - is either rationally defensible or helpful in fighting tyranny. To the contrary, in fact: positive rights can only be maintained through tyranny and thus are complicit in it.

Sundog wrote:
Education systems that appear to be failing need to be revised and updated, not done away with entirely. Evolution, not revolution.

As I mentioned, even putting aside the dismal results of public education, the entire basis for it is, by my reasoning, immoral. Such a structure demands to be demolished.
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Unjust laws exist: shall we be content to obey them, or shall we endeavor to amend them, and obey them until we have succeeded, or shall we transgress them at once? -- Henry David Thoreau