HOLY FRAK PAIZO!!

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:02 am

I was sure Paizo was going to give as good a price as possible on their new 600 page full color Pathfinder RPG PDF, but I did not expect, or even dream, that it would only be TEN DOLLARS!!!!

10 frikkin dollars!

Ten!!'

Stunning!

Plus PF RPG subscribers get it free. Those who get the subscriber discount, but are NOT subscribing to the RPG line still get their 15% off, so $8.50 for a 600 page full color core rule book.

Abso frikkin lutely STUNNING!
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:22 pm

Treebore wrote:
I was sure Paizo was going to give as good a price as possible on their new 600 page full color Pathfinder RPG PDF, but I did not expect, or even dream, that it would only be TEN DOLLARS!!!!

10 frikkin dollars!

Ten!!'

Stunning!

Plus PF RPG subscribers get it free. Those who get the subscriber discount, but are NOT subscribing to the RPG line still get their 15% off, so $8.50 for a 600 page full color core rule book.

Abso frikkin lutely STUNNING!

That is good stuff. However I can't say that I'm surprised. I mean, they were giving the material for the Alpha and Beta set of rules for free in order to have as large and open of a playtest as possible.

It's hard to justify having people to pay for something when they previously had a long term access to it for free. However, considering the new material this does cover, and hoping that 3.x fans continue to stick with this alternative to 4th edition, I have to say it's pretty sweet!

Good work Paizo!

M
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dutch206 · Post by **dutch206** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:21 pm

Seriously? That won't even cover the cost of paper and binding. That has to be the PDF price.
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Relaxo · Post by **Relaxo** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:21 pm

damn!

for 10 bucks i might just grab that.

see? it's working!

anglefish · Post by **anglefish** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:34 pm

Wha???

I thought it was going to be like $50! How can they even make a profit on that?!?

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:35 pm

Thats cool and I'm not overly surprised by the move, Paizo is good people and the nature of the product, in order to get a good foothold prolly needs to be that cheap given that its a rehash and retooling.

Sir Ironside · Post by **Sir Ironside** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:00 pm

dutch206 wrote:
Seriously? That won't even cover the cost of paper and binding. That has to be the PDF price.

anglefish wrote:
Wha???

I thought it was going to be like $50! How can they even make a profit on that?!?

Treebore wrote:
I was sure Paizo was going to give as good a price as possible on their new 600 page full color Pathfinder RPG PDF, but I did not expect, or even dream, that it would only be TEN DOLLARS!!!!

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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:12 pm

Just goes to show that "e-information has no real value.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:20 pm

And besides, I think a $10 pdf is not that big of deal at all. Pathfinder is a niche of a niche and the beta version is wildly distributed. I guarentee Paizo didn't print up 50,000 copies the 600 page phonebook because the rules are so wildly available for the most part. Plus, I doubt Paizo is even looking to make any money off the core rules. The core rules are simply an avenue into their other Pathfinder products.

Treebore, you are excited and that's good, but IMO I don't think that it's really that big of a deal (that is unless you haven't gotten into the rules at all yet.).
-O
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:03 pm

I guess you guys don't follow this very much. Yes, the Alpha and Bets rules were distributed freely, but this is the FINAL version of their rules, and it is going to have far more differences in it from the Alpha and Beta than 3.0 had from 3.5E, so if people are going to follow "Pathfinder" they will be buying this book. If Paizo also succeeds in growing their market new players will be buying this as well.

RPG's are a "niche" market, true. However within that "niche" Paizo is no "niche", they are the second biggest money maker within the RPG "niche", if their number of employees are any indication. They are bigger than Mongoose, bigger than White Wolf, and in terms of employees are nearly as big as WOTC's division for D&D.

So for one of the big five, if not the big 2, to make the PDF of their flagship book available for only $10 when industry standard pricing of such products would say $25 would be the absolute cheapest we could hope to see, and $30 to $35 to be far more likely, yes, it is a big deal to see it sold at $10.

So some of you may think Paizo is a small guy, but your wrong, they have sales, lots of sales, and if they sell even half of the DL's that the Beta version had, which was 50,000 DL's, at $10 each that is 250,000 dollars. So by pricing it at $10 instead of, say, $30, they effectively threw away $500,000. Now you can call that meaningless if you wish, but I know what half a million dollars can do for a company the size of Paizo, so this price is no trivial thing.

Combine that with the fact that WOTC, White Wolf, Mongoose, and maybe Green Ronin would never price their flagship book product at this price, it is a very big deal.
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anglefish · Post by **anglefish** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:20 pm

Sir Ironside wrote:

MacLeod · Post by **MacLeod** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:35 pm

That is pretty awesome. I might end up getting this thing sooner than I had anticipated simply because of that price.
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Plaag · Post by **Plaag** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:20 pm

I'll be getting the book, most likely through Amazon. But with the PDF being that low, may just get that as well now.

ShaneG.

dutch206 · Post by **dutch206** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:45 pm

anglefish wrote:

Mea Culpa.
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sieg · Post by **sieg** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:24 pm

Kudos to Pizo and great news for the Pathfinder fans. I wish them well.

I'm just stunned by a 600 page rulebook. Maybe I'm just old and lazy, but I don't want to play ANYTHING that's 600 pgs long (for a rulebook)!

Its similar to how I felt about Hero 5.5; I wish Hero Games the best of luck and its great news for the fans...but I don't have time to play, memorize, and research anything that huge. That's too much like my PhD research!
If I want to play Hero, I'll stick with the 64 pg 1980 Champions version. If I need to play something Hero but more recent the Sidekicks book will do.
I'm glad Pizo is working hard for its fans, but it ain't for me.
Mike
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:35 am

sieg wrote:
Kudos to Pizo and great news for the Pathfinder fans. I wish them well.

I'm just stunned by a 600 page rulebook. Maybe I'm just old and lazy, but I don't want to play ANYTHING that's 600 pgs long (for a rulebook)!

Its similar to how I felt about Hero 5.5; I wish Hero Games the best of luck and its great news for the fans...but I don't have time to play, memorize, and research anything that huge. That's too much like my PhD research!
If I want to play Hero, I'll stick with the 64 pg 1980 Champions version. If I need to play something Hero but more recent the Sidekicks book will do.
I'm glad Pizo is working hard for its fans, but it ain't for me.
Mike

Well, I have no plans for playing PF or running it, but to be a little fairer to them they combine the PH and DM type rules in this book.
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Benoist · Post by **Benoist** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:47 am

Yup. Final PF RPG for $10 in PDF. That's awesome for the customer, and a very smart marketing move. To paraphrase Piratecat from elsewhere, Paizo's greatest enemy is to not be talked about. A PDF at that price means that Pathfinder certainly will be talked about, and now has a greater chance than ever of finding the broad audience it deserves.

Good news.
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Barrataria · Post by **Barrataria** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:33 am

sieg wrote:
I'm just stunned by a 600 page rulebook. Maybe I'm just old and lazy, but I don't want to play ANYTHING that's 600 pgs long (for a rulebook)!

As often is the case I agree with Dr. Sieg (can I say that yet?)

I have one of the playtest versions somewhere.. what is in that 600 pages? Isn't that more than the PHB, DMG, MMI and II combined? By a lot?

I hope it's still mostly compatible with 3E; my only interest is in seeing some Necromancer stuff which Clark will only put out with these rules, apparently...
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Kayolan · Post by **Kayolan** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:53 am

Barrataria wrote:
I have one of the playtest versions somewhere.. what is in that 600 pages? Isn't that more than the PHB, DMG, MMI and II combined? By a lot?

nope, 624 pages vs. 600. (sorry couldn't resist the urge )

Plaag · Post by **Plaag** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:26 pm

The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook is a 576-pages to be exact
ShaneG.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:30 pm

Barrataria wrote:
...my only interest is in seeing some Necromancer stuff which Clark will only put out with these rules, apparently...

Hear, hear! Slumbering Tsar anyone?!

600 pages is a phonebook of rules, no doubt. But as mentioned before the Pathfinder RPG combines an entire PHB with many of the aspects of a DMG (full compliment of treasures I'm sure takes up the most room, and basic DMG concepts like XP, planes and cosmology, traps, and the like).

-O
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dutch206 · Post by **dutch206** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:45 pm

The change that I really enjoyed was one that I house-ruled years ago: move rogue hit dice up to d8 and move sorceror and wizard hit dice up to d6. That 2 hit points a level thing is for the birds.
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Barrataria · Post by **Barrataria** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:50 pm

Kayolan wrote:
nope, 624 pages vs. 600. (sorry couldn't resist the urge )

But apparently, this calculation is unnecessary as the phonebook does not contain monsters.

Next assignment: print out the SRD and compare to see which is longer
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tylermo · Post by **tylermo** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:50 pm

Haven't researched all the details, but that's 10.00 for a 600 page print rulebook? I suppose it's possible. ONe of my other favorite companies(other than TLG), Pinnacle Games for the last couple of years has sold their Savage Worlds(universal rpg) rules in a softcover, full-color digest for 10.00. It will be moving up to 20.00 when the current 2nd printing runs out however. I'm sure the PF game will probably be okay, but I'll probably just stick with Savage Worlds, and C&C. Good luck to them. Would be funny if they outsold the big boys.

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:22 pm

tylermo wrote:
Haven't researched all the details, but that's 10.00 for a 600 page print rulebook? I suppose it's possible. ONe of my other favorite companies(other than TLG), Pinnacle Games for the last couple of years has sold their Savage Worlds(universal rpg) rules in a softcover, full-color digest for 10.00. It will be moving up to 20.00 when the current 2nd printing runs out however. I'm sure the PF game will probably be okay, but I'll probably just stick with Savage Worlds, and C&C. Good luck to them. Would be funny if they outsold the big boys.

No sir, this is for the PDF. Which I think is a darn good price, considering that many companies (read: Wotc) sell their core books full price. If you haven't read Treebore's post, tylermo, I'll quote it here, mainly because I was going to prepare something very similar and he beat me to it. But also because I find little fault with what he says.

Treebore wrote:
I guess you guys don't follow this very much. Yes, the Alpha and Bets rules were distributed freely, but this is the FINAL version of their rules, and it is going to have far more differences in it from the Alpha and Beta than 3.0 had from 3.5E, so if people are going to follow "Pathfinder" they will be buying this book. If Paizo also succeeds in growing their market new players will be buying this as well.

RPG's are a "niche" market, true. However within that "niche" Paizo is no "niche", they are the second biggest money maker within the RPG "niche", if their number of employees are any indication. They are bigger than Mongoose, bigger than White Wolf, and in terms of employees are nearly as big as WOTC's division for D&D.

So for one of the big five, if not the big 2, to make the PDF of their flagship book available for only $10 when industry standard pricing of such products would say $25 would be the absolute cheapest we could hope to see, and $30 to $35 to be far more likely, yes, it is a big deal to see it sold at $10.

So some of you may think Paizo is a small guy, but your wrong, they have sales, lots of sales, and if they sell even half of the DL's that the Beta version had, which was 50,000 DL's, at $10 each that is 250,000 dollars. So by pricing it at $10 instead of, say, $30, they effectively threw away $500,000. Now you can call that meaningless if you wish, but I know what half a million dollars can do for a company the size of Paizo, so this price is no trivial thing.

Combine that with the fact that WOTC, White Wolf, Mongoose, and maybe Green Ronin would never price their flagship book product at this price, it is a very big deal.

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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:08 am

I heard there were no critters in this one... or did I misinterpret this? I noticed a Pathfinder Bestiary coming out around the same time as the core rule book. Can someone confirm this?

Since I've got my 3.x stuff, I'm not too worried though I'll have to be mindful of powerscale a bit I suppose. I understand that lower level characters in PF are a bit more powerful than their straight 3.x counterparts making lower level encounters less of a challenge.

M
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:42 am

moriarty777 wrote:
I heard there were no critters in this one... or did I misinterpret this? I noticed a Pathfinder Bestiary coming out around the same time as the core rule book. Can someone confirm this?

Since I've got my 3.x stuff, I'm not too worried though I'll have to be mindful of powerscale a bit I suppose. I understand that lower level characters in PF are a bit more powerful than their straight 3.x counterparts making lower level encounters less of a challenge.

M

Yeah, as I understand it there are no, or at least few, monsters in the PF book. There is a bestirary down the road, a small preview was made available for Free RPG Day, and the PDF of which is now available for free.

There is some tweakage to classes, but as I understand it they are changes to make PrC's less attractive, but I have not been immersing myself in the rules, because I have no idea what they are going to decide to do in the final version.

Now their preview of several classes that they have done over the last several weeks can clue you in.

Now, if you use "official" PF monsters, I imagine they were smart enough to scale them up, since I would hope all D&D designers learned that lesson after the effects Unearthed Arcana had on 1E D&D.

Free Bestiary PDF:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/pa ... 48btpy88x4
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Plaag · Post by **Plaag** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:51 am

Yeah they tweak the monsters as well, the major one would be undead with d8 instead of d12, but now they get bonus hp based on Char. There's a couple of forums that discuss the book, the changes, etc far better then I'd summarize.

ShaneG.

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:40 pm

Yeah, the monster book looks like it's going to be interesting, as well. I saw the Bonus Bestiary that was given out at Free RPG Day and the art is well done, then stats are tweaked a little, but overall it's pretty decent. I'd guess that if one has a 3.x Monster Manual they would be fine, but this is something to pick up at some point.

Las I heard was that the PF rulebook was coming out before GenCon and the Bestiary was coming out at GenCon. This still holding true, does anyone know?
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:33 pm

Lord Dynel wrote:
Yeah, the monster book looks like it's going to be interesting, as well. I saw the Bonus Bestiary that was given out at Free RPG Day and the art is well done, then stats are tweaked a little, but overall it's pretty decent. I'd guess that if one has a 3.x Monster Manual they would be fine, but this is something to pick up at some point.

Las I heard was that the PF rulebook was coming out before GenCon and the Bestiary was coming out at GenCon. This still holding true, does anyone know?

All I see them talking about for "GenCon is the rule book. Subscribers might get their copy before Gen Con starts, and the PDF will be available for DL at the start of Gen Con.

I remember every mention of the bestiary being for after Gen Con.
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