Does a helm help in the rules as written

Steerpike · Post by **Steerpike** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:24 pm

I've seen some posts on called shots to the head, which is a situation where a helm would definitely matter. These all seem to be house-ruled.

The rules as written contemplate a helm offering AC bonus for blows to the head, but I don't see anything about blows to the head generally.

Am I missing something?

I have the PHB.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:31 pm

Steerpike wrote:
I've seen some posts on called shots to the head, which is a situation where a helm would definitely matter. These all seem to be house-ruled.

The rules as written contemplate a helm offering AC bonus for blows to the head, but I don't see anything about blows to the head generally.

Am I missing something?

I have the PHB.

You are not missing anything. There is helm AC, but there are no rules about targeting the head anywhere in the PHB. These situations have to be houseruled or made up on the spot.

~O
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:35 pm

Not that anybody is interested, but I'll provide my houserules for head shots here (also available in my sig below):

Head AC = 10 + DEX mod + helm AC.

Targeting the head is -6 for a large target, -8 for a medium target, and -10 for a small target.

If the head is hit then the damage is doubled, plus certain other penalties that the CK might perscribe on a case-by-case basis. Undead and creatures with no decernable head anatomy are unaffected by head shots.

If the head shot is a naturdal 20, then the targeted creature must make a CON save with a CL = to the level or HD of the character who caused the critical or be reduced to -10HP (dead).

~O
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:50 pm

Originally, C&C had considered the dreaded helmet rule of AD&D -- that is, if an intelligent foe attacks a creature which is non-helmeted, 50% of the time, it would strike for the head which would result in an AC of 10 + Dexterity modifiers + magical item bonuses (like ring of protection) + helm AC... but, it seems that did not make it into the actual rules. Otherwise, helms provide an AC bonus against very specific attacks, like an ooze dropping from the ceiling and landing on the head, but no actual rule for it... in effect, they are gear-oriented situational modifiers, much like a shield could be (that is, if you wear it on the left but are hit from the right back flank, etc etc).
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:25 am

I rule it pretty easy:

A character has his AC (10 + armor worn + dex bonus).

For his head, I just allow the same AC + the AC of the helm. Instead of adding a penalty for the attacker to the hit, I just let the defending charcter keep his full AC and add his helm. It usually ends up about the same.

Example - A character (no dex modifier or shield) with Chain Mail (Mail Hauberk) armor has AC of 15. The armor also includes a chain coif, so the AC for his head would be 19 (the AC 15 + 4 for the coif).

Yes, that means people without head protection are exposed. But not many of my monsters go for head shots against the unprotected...the smart ones do, though.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:19 am

I usually only worry about a head AC if I want, or someone does something, like an assassin, to make it important...so, no, it does nothing. I also don't like hard rules about it. However, I am going to be giving a whole lot more "reasons" to have helmets shortly....
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:24 am

I had a chart I posted once that had various called shot locations to different body parts, each had a variety of modifiers to hit, and damage. Ill see if I can dig that up later?
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:44 am

Don't bother Peter:

gideon_thorne wrote:
]Called Shots in general. This is a system my last major game group used, and I still use. Works like this

Bear in mind, we used this for AD&D, so just add the 'to hit' to the AC.

The damage multiplier is how much damage one adds on top of the rolled damage.

And I know someones going to say something about balance. But it wasnt all that important to my last group. But here is a way to handle it. If the players can use it, the critters can use it.

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Enpeze · Post by **Enpeze** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:48 pm

Having extra rules for them is much too complicated for us. If I want to run more complicated games with hitlocations and helmets I run Runequest or Gurps. C&C should remain simple IMO, so helmets are integrated in the AC in my games. They are rather fluff.

Steerpike · Post by **Steerpike** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:47 pm

Thanks for the ideas, guys. Some interesting thoughts here. I will run the game RAW for a few sessions to get a feel for it, but then will likely look at putting some of these other rules in place.

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:10 pm

I try not to add too much to C&C, myself, but that chart Peter made is pretty nice. I think that char would work nicely. In this case, I pretty much work with what the PHB gives me and try to extrapolate any additional information from there. *shrug*
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:18 pm

I just do this for called shots, if anyone was interested:

Automatic loss of initiative for the attacker and the attack is resolved as normal with a -8 modifier.
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Aladar · Post by **Aladar** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:16 pm

I am using the rules from the Great Hits & Terrible Misses article in Crusader Magazine #4, as well as the armor and shield damage rules from System I (Critical Hits) as outlined in the Armor Damage Rules article in Crusader Magazine #2.

So helms are definately a plus in my game.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:44 am

There are a few times I rule a shot to the head is made. Most often are these two:

Falling objects. If a trap has falling objects they will hit the head (unless the character was walking on his hands in which case we will roll vs Boot AC)

Looking around corners. Often times a player wants his or her character to only take a "quick peek" through a door or around a corner. If the bad guys on the other side are alerted somehow and ready they may take a head shot.

"there's seven orcs in the room and can somebody cast Cure My Face for me, please"
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concobar · Post by **concobar** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:22 pm

serleran wrote:
in effect, they are gear-oriented situational modifiers, much like a shield could be (that is, if you wear it on the left but are hit from the right back flank, etc etc).

pretty much how HMB handles shields
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Luther · Post by **Luther** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:17 pm

Along with the obvious advantage versus falling rocks, peeking around corners, etc. I make helmets important by making giving the head two entries in my simple crit system, one with and one without. Having a helmet can save you life in my game...
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CKDad · Post by **CKDad** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:26 pm

For those who want hit locations but don't want a full-blown table, there are dice (the one I saw last weekend was 12-sided) that have a different body location on each face in place of numbers. Not precise enough for a truly gritty or realistic system, but strikes me as an elegant option for many situations - just roll it along with your hit die.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:57 pm

CKDad wrote:
For those who want hit locations but don't want a full-blown table, there are dice (the one I saw last weekend was 12-sided) that have a different body location on each face in place of numbers. Not precise enough for a truly gritty or realistic system, but strikes me as an elegant option for many situations - just roll it along with your hit die.

Yep, I have one of those. I haven't found a good use for it yet, unfortunately. It might be interesting to just throw it with the normal attack roll.
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Ronicus · Post by **Ronicus** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:42 am

I actually had the same question and was directed here. After reading the posts I've gotten a couple of good ideas.

Stuff falling on you is not necessarily an attack. I think if a rock or anvil or whatever fell on a character I'd rule a reduction in damage equal to the helms AC bonus and give the character a Save vs. Breath Weapons and Traps to avoid being hit altogether.

As for called shots, I like it. I also like the idea of a simple hit location chart or a second roll vs. AC with helmet for natural 20s with a success causing double damage.

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Does a helm help in the rules as written

Does a helm help in the rules as written

Re: Does a helm help in the rules as written