Regarding Baldur in Of Gods and Monsters

Steerpike · Post by **Steerpike** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:02 pm

+3 AC during the day to followers. Given the tie to the sun and all, would you allow the bonus even in the deep, dark bowels of a dungeon?

I'm just full of questions lately.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:12 pm

I would not, considering them more like solar batteries, charged up only when in direct contact with true sunlight... not even that created by the clerical spell daylight or whatever it is. A taboo/ condition that can be overcome easily is not much of a taboo.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:15 pm

If you are reading the mechanical description by-the-book, even if the character were deep in a dungeon he would still get teh bonus during the daytime. Though Baldur being a deity of light, the sun and happiness might not provide the bonus in the dank, dark and unhappy places below the Earth. Total CK descretion.

~O
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:17 pm

Though there is nothing taboo about dungeons and dark places in Baldur's profile in G&M. To make the deity have a bit more depth, perhaps one could include such depth to the taboo.

~O
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Steerpike · Post by **Steerpike** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:40 am

Thanks, cats. I like the idea of reserving it for when the PC is fighting in actual daylight as opposed to in a dungeon far beneath the earth, so I think I'll go with that
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:27 am

That's what I would do... I'm a bit fuzzy in my Norse Mythology but wasn't Loki also imprisoned in a cave (and chained to a rock) for being the one responsible for Baldur's death?

M
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:56 am

Like much of mythology, there are divergent views on what happened and why... but, yes, in at least one recounting, Loki is punished for his trespass, and Baldur is un-pleased with his trip to see Hel.
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Sir Ironside · Post by **Sir Ironside** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:54 pm

I don't have the book, but I'm just wondering what the balance is with other gifts. I mean to me that is a pretty big penalty and unless the other gifts reflect such then fine but if not I'd just go with the 12 hour cycle regardless of where you are.

I'd think twice about taking Baldur if I was told, "Oh, you only get these bonuses when you are exposed to the sunlight, which means that anywhere you go that is dark you can't gain access to this power even if it is light outside."

But, like I said I don't know how it stacks up to other gods gifts.
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Steerpike · Post by **Steerpike** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:08 pm

Sir Ironside wrote:
I don't have the book, but I'm just wondering what the balance is with other gifts. I mean to me that is a pretty big penalty and unless the other gifts reflect such then fine but if not I'd just go with the 12 hour cycle regardless of where you are.

I'd think twice about taking Baldur if I was told, "Oh, you only get these bonuses when you are exposed to the sunlight, which means that anywhere you go that is dark you can't gain access to this power even if it is light outside."

But, like I said I don't know how it stacks up to other gods gifts.

Well, the +3 to AC is a pretty nice bonus to begin with, and there is no taboo to speak of associated with Baldur (ok, you have to destroy mistletoe when you see it).

So I'm thinking it comes closer to being 'overpowered' (using that term loosely) to let a PC have the +3 no matter where they are, even underground, just for choosing Baldur as a god, then it comes to really being a penalty if you restrict it to being in actual sunlight.
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GameOgre · Post by **GameOgre** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:31 pm

Well first off I don't have this book yet. It's on my list to get though after the CKG.

What does worry me a little is the power increase. A +3 to AC is huge! The ones in Crusader for Halflings seemed more balanced. I do not remember seeing bonus's that high. A +1 to hit or +1 to AC is small enough that I didnt feel the (maybe) knee jerk reaction of oh crap here we go with the power drift.

One thing I love about C&C was that things were kept simple. Not a ton of bonus's to add up to make a character so tough that they wade through the creatures strait out of the M&T with ease. A +3 to AC is enough to make some characters a LOT tougher and able to handle many more monsters at once(at least to me).

I worry that with gifts from the gods like these stacked with magic and ability bonus's other things will be just too high.

Now don't think im bashing the product without even getting it yet! I was just thinking about it and got that oh oh feeling.

I know I can always just ignore that part of it(though I think its a good idea) I just think a +3 bonus is getting too large.
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Steerpike · Post by **Steerpike** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:06 pm

I think it is a bit over-powered as well, which means that certain players are going to jump right on it because that's what they're looking for.

A more substantial taboo could have balanced it out a bit, but I think interpreting it as requiring that the character actually be in the sunlight is a nice balancing mechanism in and of itself. We'll see how it plays out in practice.
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Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:49 am

My books arrived today so I haven't had a chance to read too much of them, so I might not have the right answer here.

That being said, I plan on using the gifts and bonuses for the worshipers fairly sparingly. It will take more than lip service to Baldur (or any other god for that matter) to receive the +3 plus once you reach that level of devotion then be careful about needing help from an other god... Yes, your a a devoted follower of Bulder but the lands around your keep are experiencing a drought and a plague of insects, boy it'd be nice to be able to pray to Demeter (or who ever is the goddess of agriculture) but nope, sure hope you liked that +3 to AC in the last battle, because in about a week your starving peasants just might revolt...

Again, that might not be by the book, but it's my first look at it.
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Grey · Post by **Grey** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:22 pm

OK, I haven't seen this boook yet (being in the UK), but this has got me wondering:

Does this mean that a paladin of Baldur gets +5 AC against evil in sunlight without even needing any armour?

Also, how does this compare with other benefits, and how does a character actually get these benefits? (I assume that the character needs to be devote? How is this 'enforced' or is it up to CK fiat?)

Just wondering.....and thanks for any overview/ summary that people can provide
D.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:10 pm

Yeah, I would definitely house rule this one a bit, as well as others.

My thinking is this should have been written:

A worshipper of Baldur gets partial protection from evil while exposed to sunlight or an equivalent spell (CK adjudication). While in the sun they only gain a divine bonus of +2 to their AC, and stacks normally with other spells, but not with another protection from evil effect.

This way it stays in line with things already in the game rules, and even pulls directly from a specific spell, and gives us a guideline on what the bonus will stack with.

I would even go so far as to add for Paladins of Baldur:

Paladins of Baldur actually receive the full benefits of the spell Protection From Evil while in direct sun light or its equivalent.

Which in C&C means they will be immune to mind influencing effects like Charm, Domination, etc... To be clear, the spell takes effect on them, but they cannot be influenced by the caster.

So yes, I agree that a lot of these are not exactly to my liking, but part of the spirit of C&C is for us to take anything we don't like. which is why my house rules document is as long as it is.
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Steerpike · Post by **Steerpike** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:19 pm

As it is playing out in the campaign I don't think it is going to be a problem after all. I was put off initially, but it seems to fit. I am applying the bonus only when in sunlight. And I am requiring that the player adhere strongly to the taboo, ritual, and general principles of Baldur in a roleplaying fashion.
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