New version of WFRP

Kayolan · Post by **Kayolan** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:20 pm

A new version of WFRP has been announced:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_ ... p?eidn=729

No comments yet, only that it isn't looking good to me (so far).

MacLeod · Post by **MacLeod** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:20 pm

I don't know about this.

I have a feeling the game's flavor is going to suffer. Here is hoping it turns out good, in any event...
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:32 pm

It looks a lot like their board games, such as Runebound. I dunno... it might be good, but it might have no Warhammer goodness to it. Not sure a 3rd edition is even needed considering I am not a big fan of the 2nd one. But, I'll be hesitantly hopeful... I'll buy the main rules and then dump them if I don't like it. Maybe. Not sure.

I liked things better when Games Workshop actually had something to do with their products. Damn, I'm getting all grognardy.
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MacLeod · Post by **MacLeod** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:00 am

$100 buy in, serl. How does that make you feel?

I don't like using 'special' dice outside of the classic seven. One of the reasons why I avoid games that use FUDGE dice...
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:12 am

I am not dissuaded by a $100 price tag, alone. I am turned off by much of what is known about the game... and the $100 does not help it any. "Special" dice? What the hell are those supposed to be... maybe terrain, like in Runebound (so FFG can recycle them and increase profit margin), and this whole "card" thing really irks me... but, we'll see. I'd much rather they call this Warhammer Quest 2nd edition and include ~100 miniatures like the first did... or hell, even call it "Really Advanced Hero Quest" but damn, it is not looking, or feeling, like Warhammer Fantasy Role Play.
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MacLeod · Post by **MacLeod** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:20 am

They could have also named it, "Feeble Attempt To Compete With D&D 4th Edition."

Seriously, the idea of merging board game and RPG ideas is not a bad one... but certain RPGs shouldn't be given that treatment.

Outside of certain instances of armor breaking the game, WFRP always gave me a gritty feel... and I'm sure that won't translate to this edition.

I have plenty of complaints about WFRP 2e and how its rules work so I had been hoping for a new edition... but this isn't what I was asking for, at all.
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Steerpike · Post by **Steerpike** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:21 pm

I'm reserving judgment until I see it.

If they're just increasing production value (adding cards and stuff like that to make the game more aesthetically attractive) but leaving the gameplay more or less the same, with only minor fixes, then cool.

If they're trying to even approach the 4e route or do some combination of RPG and boardgame I think it will suck
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Frost · Post by **Frost** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:27 pm

It looks like a great boardgame, but not really an RPG. I guess there is a fine line though. $100 buy-in is freakin' steep. Then again, I'm a C&C guy (i.e., I get my rules on the cheap ).

It looks really neat though. Fantasy Flight does have excellent production values.
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Steerpike · Post by **Steerpike** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:31 pm

I really like WFRPG a lot. It's something I'd normally be tempted to pre-order. But after being bitten by 4e I'm reluctant to pre-order things that look this different. Rather get my hands on them first and take a good look.

Here's hoping they come up with something great!
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:10 am

MacLeod wrote:
They could have also named it, "Feeble Attempt To Compete With D&D 4th Edition."

Seriously, the idea of merging board game and RPG ideas is not a bad one... but certain RPGs shouldn't be given that treatment.

Eh, we don't necessarily need the 4e reference, do we? Maybe they've just got a different idea, something else they want to try, and maybe it's not necessarily an attempt to compete with 4e. And as long as they sell at least a thousand copies, they'll be competing just fine.

Quote:
Outside of certain instances of armor breaking the game, WFRP always gave me a gritty feel... and I'm sure that won't translate to this edition.

I have plenty of complaints about WFRP 2e and how its rules work so I had been hoping for a new edition... but this isn't what I was asking for, at all.

I agree with this. The 2nd Edition lost a bit of the gritty feel, IMHO. But honestly, it all depends which direction the rules are going.
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Benoist · Post by **Benoist** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:14 am

It might be fun to play, who knows, but why OH why does it have to be branded "Warhammer FRP 3rd edition" and not something entirely apart from the RPG line?

This blows. The design concept (as a RPG) sucks ass and I can smell Fourth Edition redux from here. I'm not going to pay for that.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:00 am

Well, apparently, there is a "tension counter" and all manners of dice you get to roll to tell you what you want to do, so even real player interaction is removed. Perfect, mindless, dumb... boredom.
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MacLeod · Post by **MacLeod** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:26 pm

Lord Dynel wrote:
Eh, we don't necessarily need the 4e reference, do we? Maybe they've just got a different idea, something else they want to try, and maybe it's not necessarily an attempt to compete with 4e. And as long as they sell at least a thousand copies, they'll be competing just fine.

I do believe it was necessary. Do you doubt that a radical change in design like this isn't the result of what WotC has done with 4th Edition?

The jump from 2nd edition to 3rd edition in WFRP's case is much, muuuch worse than 3.5 to 4th in terms of betraying its roots. I wonder if anything will be recognizable when they are done... This thing FFG has created belongs under the board game category, as Benoist implied.
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Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:11 pm

Thanks for the warning. I'll stick with my first edition WFRP.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:40 pm

Disclaimer: I haven't played any of the previous incarnations of the game either.

When I went to check this out and read the various comments of the fans there, I was reminded of the original backlash against the announcement of 4th Ed D&D by hardcore 3rd Ed fans. Nothing new... just names used were different.

Why is FFG taking this approach with this? To re-capture a market. Warhammer as IP is strong but some fans of that game took up 4th Ed. One of my local game store has a huge Warhammer fanbase and a large portion of them set aside that game and are now playing D&D. In a lot of cases, these are people that have never really paid attention (or even played) the game before 4th Edition. The new D&D struck a cord with some of the Warhammer fanbase so it's only natural that they wish to capitalize on this.

I'm not saying it's a good idea or a bad one... just an interesting observation.

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TheMetal1 · Post by **TheMetal1** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:53 am

Well, I gotta say I'm suprised. I shouldn't be, but I am. The signs were there - PDF release of all the Warhammer 2nd edition stuff was an indicator.

FFG IMHO had two ways to go with this new edition business

1. The WOTC way. Hide the fact that your not doing a new edition and then just come out with an already down or mostly done product with an entirely new concept.

2. The Pathfinder way. Tell your fans what your doing, invite input and play testing.

FFG went with option 1. Which is hugely frustrating to the established player base. The game that they enjoy - at least on inital glance - does not appear to be the same game. This also means they are intending to weather the fan backlash in hopes of attracting the new gamers with a new style as WOTC did. The no notice, and the radical design will turn some folks off certainly.

I do give FFG credit though. The releasing of all the 2nd Edition stuff on PDF was a good move and certainly No one will argue the quality of product that it will be with FFG, but the $100 price tag - ouch! Not that we gamers wouldn't eventually spend that - just look at the CKG, PHB, OGM, MM all told would be about $100 if bought at once with the MSRP. WOTC D&D 4E is about that if one buys all three MM, DM, PHB.

I don't really know what to think. I just hoped that FFG would have went with option 2, but they didn't. I'll take a wait and see attitude.

GreyLord · Post by **GreyLord** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:12 am

I have to say, I feel backstabbed.

I've supported FFG BIG TIME, and WFRP is probably one of the other games I play regularly besides C&C. I would probably jump at the chance to get the game and play it IF it were named something else, and didn't steal the name of a fine game to slap it on some Frankenstein creation of their own making.

I have some hope that they don't screw it up, but currently everything is pointing towards it being a boardgame/rpg hybrid despite what they are trying to say. The one person who played this and reported about it over month ago already pointed it to being a hybrid, and though some thought it may be a hoax at the time, everything that person stated has turned out to be backed up in the past few days by what FFG has posted.

I can't believe I shelled out for a special Collectors Rogue Trader and showed all this support for FFG only to be Backstabbed. I SHOULD transfer that support over to the Trolls I suppose, they could use the support instead.

Right now ever since the announcement I'm still in a haze of shock, probably akin to what some AD&D players were towards 3ed, or how some who loved 3e have reacted to D&D4e.

I simply can't beleive FFG would turn on it's own supporters like this. Part of me wants to beleive that everything they've shown thus far is not truly representative of what the game really will be like, the more logical portion is saying they've gone ahead and screwed the game up.

Talk about shock.

The Trolls are all great, I truly hope they always stay true to the C&C ideals that were started and never sell out!

In relation to the other game, WFRP, It sucks for fans of WFRP in many ways right now.

I'm still hoping though.

TheMetal1 · Post by **TheMetal1** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:37 pm

Greylord,

Yeah, I hear you. I had to go over and post at FFG's site. I figured it was you posting over there as well. The whole thing is very frustrating.

I like FFG's stuff, I really do, and I'm very happy with what they've done with Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader. I was thinking about getting the collectors edition as well of RT. I've got BattleLore from them - which I got instead of delving into Warhammer Fantasy Battles from GW (just to be different I suppose, but still I like what they did with it all) - along with the awesome LOTR Board Game. There are ton of their board games I'd like to try out- Conan, Middle Earth Quest, War of the Ring, Tanhauser, Tailsman, Descent, Chaos in the Old World, Tide of Iron, etc - of course, I don't seem to have an extra thousand dollars lying around the house, but eventually I'd be picking them up over time. To be honest I probably will.

But this Warhammer 3rd Edition...ughhh...
WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST TELL THE FANS AND INVITE THEM IN ON THE PROCESS!

I'm not an industry expert, but what are they thinking? DH sold out its first print run, it was a book, a well done book. Pathfinder talked with their fans, released all the info on the game just about and sold out on the first print run before it was released.

New dice, cards, cardstock characters? I'm cool with Game Aids, I but Paizo stuff all the time. The Cards in 4e, they were their in 3e, just marketed by other folks. But even WOTC didn't try to package a game around it. This reminds me of the wierd stuff they did with 2nd Edition AD&D. The dice mechanic? I don't know, its not that I'm not open to new games or systems, I collect a bunch of stuff and enjoy new rules. But even a small press redo of Twilight 2000 - Twilight 2013 by 93 games studio - gave the fans some heads up on what they were doing and let everyone know ahead of time they were changing the mechanics of the game. There was no communication IMHO, zippo, nada, nothing!

The other frustrating thing was the person who was trying to do put a postive response post about Warhammer 3e in all the forum posts. Seemed like a FFG seminar troll trying to put a good spin on the new edition and soften the negative impact. It was a similar thing over at Gygax Games . People posting their frustrations, then I went there one day all the posts had been deleted. I never posted there and checked back periodically, but after GG did that I've pretty much give up on that company.

I'm holding out hope that they will, continue with the Warhammer 2nd Edition line. It hasn't been canceled and the website is still up, along with the PDFs. Even if they only sparodically produced PDFs for the game that would be cool.

GreyLord · Post by **GreyLord** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:34 pm

Yes, that's the one consoling thing right now is at least they still have PDF's. However, to drown my sorrows I went off and bought Rifts, Dragon Warriors, and the Pathfinder Campaign and Pathfinder Core Rules...with NO MONEY going to FFG this weekend.

I suppose I'm just vindictive...or still really unhappy about the way they chose to unveil this and how I feel they've mistreated the fans.

dutch206 · Post by **dutch206** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:00 pm

I am done with FFG. While I was waiting for TLG to come out with the "Fourth Crusade" books, I decided to find a replacement system for D&D. I landed on Warhammer and bought about a hundred bucks worth of 'new' second edition books. Now those 'new' books have all the value of a doorstop.

I don't have another new edition in me. Seriously. I am done with FFG. I am really feeling like I did during the threetard/fouron days at WoTC.
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Kayolan · Post by **Kayolan** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:06 pm

dutch206 wrote:
I landed on Warhammer and bought about a hundred bucks worth of 'new' second edition books. Now those 'new' books have all the value of a doorstop.

I wouldn't go that far, they still have value. I am sure that plenty of people will still want to play the real version of WFRP.

May I suggest this site (if you aren't aware of it already): http://forum.strike-to-stun.net/

Benoist · Post by **Benoist** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:08 pm

Warhammer 2 is cool enough. I'm sure many Warhammer FRP gamers are still going to play it for quite a while...

*throws a look at Pathfinder in the aftermath of 4e*

*cough cough*

Call it a hunch, if you want...
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:19 pm

MacLeod wrote:
I do believe it was necessary. Do you doubt that a radical change in design like this isn't the result of what WotC has done with 4th Edition?

The jump from 2nd edition to 3rd edition in WFRP's case is much, muuuch worse than 3.5 to 4th in terms of betraying its roots. I wonder if anything will be recognizable when they are done... This thing FFG has created belongs under the board game category, as Benoist implied.

I suppose so...but some us are trying to forget the travisty WotC did to D&D, and it just keeps coming back up.

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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:52 pm

I was completely turned off by WH 3, so I'll be staying with 2E. An all to familiar result these last few years.
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Steerpike · Post by **Steerpike** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:01 pm

I don't know about your 2e books, but mine still have a lot of value, since that's still what I play. Same reason my 1e AD&D books still have value - me and my group still use them.

If you want to continue to play 2e, you can do so indefinitely. I expect I'll be doing just that because 3e WFRPG doesn't look like something that will interest me.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:16 pm

Well there is no doubt that WFRP3 is a lot different then 1e/2e. That being said, I think that the mock-up contents at FFG looked pretty neat. I can't say that I am going to play the game. Truth be told, I probably won't because it doesn't really resemble the old game. But I will probably give it a try just to get a taste for it. Who knows, maybe it will be good (but it will probably never be old-school WFRP good).

~O
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:03 am

This on line video seminar gives you a pretty solid idea of how much you get for your $100 buy in, an dhow much they are going to soak you for expansions:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_c ... minar.html

I admit it looks cool, with lots of neat sounding ideas, but I seriously doubt I am going to buy into it.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:52 pm

Treebore wrote:
This on line video seminar gives you a pretty solid idea of how much you get for your $100 buy in, an dhow much they are going to soak you for expansions:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_c ... minar.html

I admit it looks cool, with lots of neat sounding ideas, but I seriously doubt I am going to buy into it.

I didn't click on your link, Tree, but what you're saying is kind of depressing.
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MacLeod · Post by **MacLeod** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:04 am

I watched those seminars earlier today... Pretty much sold me on not buying it ever. For any reason.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:34 am

It's just a different type of game now. Some very strange hybrid game of RPG and... and, well, I'm not sure what. From watching the seminars, it's not traditional roleplaying in any way, shape or form.

~O
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