Do you have a critical hit system you use for C&C?

vivsavage · Post by **vivsavage** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:32 pm

I'm curious as to what the most common house rule elements C&C players/GMs have. This one is about whether you have any sort of critical hit system for your C&C games.

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:30 pm

I stole... er, borrowed mine from Treebore. On a nat 20 reroll to hit. On a nat 1 make a dex save of lose your next turn.

R-
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:43 pm

No, I find them less than pleasant on the players when they are subjected to more possible results due to the nature of being returning roles -- monsters are normally one-shot encounters, so them suffering a critical is usually a "ok, this encounter is over" but a PC that takes one, at least with any lasting effect, can be crippled and most players don't like that too much. The wusses.
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Relaxo · Post by **Relaxo** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:57 pm

I've always done this, nat 1 = something bad or irksome, lose a turn or drop weapon, maybe even fall over if terrain is appropriate (fighting in slippery mud or the like).

nat 20 = roll damage twice.

Used to have 20 automatically hits no matter what, but leaning towards if nat 20 is only way to hit, no crit, just a hit. For example, if a character needs a 40 to hit somthiing and it's mathmatically impossible to get a 40, that nat 20 will still hit, but is not a critical hit.

simple and a fun to have that killer strike be possible.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:09 pm

Depends on what a given group wants. So yes and no.
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capitalbill · Post by **capitalbill** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:33 pm

Relaxo wrote:
I've always done this, nat 1 = something bad or irksome, lose a turn or drop weapon, maybe even fall over if terrain is appropriate (fighting in slippery mud or the like).

nat 20 = roll damage twice.

Used to have 20 automatically hits no matter what, but leaning towards if nat 20 is only way to hit, no crit, just a hit. For example, if a character needs a 40 to hit somthiing and it's mathmatically impossible to get a 40, that nat 20 will still hit, but is not a critical hit.

simple and a fun to have that killer strike be possible.

That's pretty much what I do, but I keep both the fumble and the success abstract. A natural twenty won't always be double damage or max damage- sometimes it'll knock the opponent out, off of a ledge, down to the floor, etc. Something at least as equally disadvantagous to the opponent as a fumble is to the player.

And I like having a natural twenty count as a hit (lucky shot) when it is otherwise mathematically impossible but not having any other effect (such as double damage or max damage).
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Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:37 pm

We use a simple, self-scaling critical and fumble system. Critical hits add damage equal to twice the character's level for the hit. Fumbles are an automatic 1 initiative on the following turn.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:19 am

Rigon wrote:
I stole... er, borrowed mine from Treebore. On a nat 20 reroll to hit. On a nat 1 make a dex save of lose your next turn.

R-

Mine's similar. On a natural 20, I let the player roll double damage. On a natural 1, it's a Dex check or lost next action.
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Sir Osis of Liver · Post by **Sir Osis of Liver** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:07 am

I prefer Seskis's system for natural 20s. Max damage. For natural 1s, I developed a set of tables that allows me to be more creative.

Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:11 am

I have two. One a conversion from Rolemaster, the other the Basic Roleplaying System impale rule. I don't use either.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:19 am

Yes. I have a critical hit system that is tied into a Weapon Mastery system.

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dachda · Post by **dachda** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:23 am

My group is using Jeff Talanian's Great Hits and Terrible Misses from Crusader Vol. 3, Issue 7. Once a critical hit or fumble is made a percentage check is rolled. 80% of the time the result is minor, a +1 or +2 to damage or miss an action next round. But roll an 81 or higher and fun stuff occurs.

Had my first PC death from a hill giant in Haunted Highlands rolling a 99. Triple damage, and a const save throw (CL10) or skull crushed for immediate death. Ouch. player failed her check. A few minutes later my dwarf PC rolled a 00 with his war hammer on the same Hill Giant, again instant death from a crushed skull. Though given a dwarf's height versus a giant, it was ruled a smash to the umm... giant's family jewels, causing so much pain and shock the giant died. The dead player, was reincarnated by the Druid in the Grove of the Green man, and returned as a wolf. Her twin sister (a ugashtan barbarian - using 4th print rules) will join the party next session. In other sessions, have had both kobolds and PCs shoot themselves in the foot with their bows, fun stuff.
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Sir Osis of Liver · Post by **Sir Osis of Liver** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:59 am

In my critical miss system, bad stuff happens a bit more frequently, although I don't have anything to do triple damage. That's pretty rough.

In my system, for example, one of the things that can occur is that the PC's weapon (or the monster's, for that matter) gets stuck in the opponent's shield. If they want their weapon back, it basically turns into a wrestling/grappling situation. Against a medium-sized opponent, the character has a pretty good shot at getting it back. Against a giant, it becomes more...interesting.

Grey · Post by **Grey** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:53 pm

My system is that, for SIEGE checks, 20 means some benefit (even if the overall roll fails (such as possibly opening a chance for further rolls); natural '1' has some detrimental effect (even if success)

For 'to hit' rolls a natural '20' means an EXTRA damage roll is made - even if the roll would 'fail' , if it would 'hit' then this means damage is rolled twice and added. This means that even the most heavily armoured, AC heavy character still has some threat from the 'little guys' who can roll damage on a '20' (and vice versa for characters against the tougher monsters)

D.

EDIT - just realised that this is similar to the method Relaxo outlines above

Aladar · Post by **Aladar** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:38 pm

We use the following crit rules for our games:

1. During combat, a natural 20 is always a hit and a 1 is always a miss.

2. When making saving throws, a natural 20 always succeeds and a 1 is always a failure.

3. We use the rules outlined in the Great Hits & Terrible Misses article in Crusader Magazine #4. Since a natural 20 is always a hit, a second d20 is rolled. If that roll comes up with a 20 as well, then damage is rolled on the appropriate critical hit table, otherwise normal damage is applied. Since a natural 1 is always a miss, a second d20 is rolled. If that roll comes up as 1, then a fumble is rolled for on the appropriate table, otherwise it is just a miss.

4. We also use the armor and shield damage rules (System I - Critical Hits) as outlined in the Armor Damage Rules article in Crusader Magazine #2.

I have found that this adds just the right amount of excitement to our games. Plus the added bonus of worry from the players that even a lowly town guardsman could crit them if they resist arrest.
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anglefish · Post by **anglefish** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:44 pm

Mine is 3.x style.

On a 20 roll to confirm. Make it again and you get double dice damage. Bonuses added after.

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:40 pm

anglefish wrote:
Mine is 3.x style.

On a 20 roll to confirm. Make it again and you get double dice damage. Bonuses added after.

I thought aboujt using this system for C&C. I'm the type that thinks that crits have it easier, since all they have to do is roll a '20' while to fumble, a '1' must be rolled and then a Dex check has to be failed on top of that. I know, I'm nuts.

How does this work for you?
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Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:07 am

I'm not generally one for adding rolls to things. Not saying that the systems aren't valid...just they don't work for me. That's why I use the system I do.
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ThrorII · Post by **ThrorII** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:09 am

capitalbill wrote:
That's pretty much what I do, but I keep both the fumble and the success abstract. A natural twenty won't always be double damage or max damage- sometimes it'll knock the opponent out, off of a ledge, down to the floor, etc. Something at least as equally disadvantagous to the opponent as a fumble is to the player.

And I like having a natural twenty count as a hit (lucky shot) when it is otherwise mathematically impossible but not having any other effect (such as double damage or max damage).

Same here.

A natural "1" is something bad happens to you--any thing from 'loose this turn' to 'slip and fall, loose your turn and -5 ac for being prone' to 'your weapon slipped out of your hand and went flying 20' away'. I just call it on the fly depending on whats going on.

A natural "20" is an automatic hit for max damage, and extras for the PC attacker, such as 'hack off the orc's weapon arm', or 'knocked the ogre prone' or 'sundered the bugbears pole arm'. Again, I just call it on the fly.

Hrolfgar · Post by **Hrolfgar** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:22 am

Just max damage on "20".

mr_pony · Post by **mr_pony** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:48 am

Double damage dice on a 20 (but it goes both ways), no critical fumbles due to endless player whining. 'Why would my arrow hit him, I was aiming for the other guy!?' Etc.

anglefish · Post by **anglefish** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:35 am

Lord Dynel wrote:
I thought aboujt using this system for C&C. I'm the type that thinks that crits have it easier, since all they have to do is roll a '20' while to fumble, a '1' must be rolled and then a Dex check has to be failed on top of that. I know, I'm nuts.

How does this work for you?

I don't have a fumble system. It doesn't fit my swashbuckling campaign.

As for my crit system. It works. My main tweak is to add the bonuses after the damage is rolled. I think 3.x had you double the bounses as well, but that's a tad over the top for CnC.

Malperion · Post by **Malperion** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:47 pm

Another one for the max damage on a 20 crowd. Also use the 20 sometimes to trigger a special event during the combat based on what the characters stated they were doing. Also, use the natural 1 for losing the next action of the character/creature. Saving throws are another great place to adjudicate variable magic effects to improve enjoyment of the story (even if it is just for me the CK).

Arazmus · Post by **Arazmus** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:53 am

a 20 always hits and a 1 always misses, only critical hit/fumble rule one needs.
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Stuie · Post by **Stuie** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:05 pm

I'm thinking about adapting the Harnmaster hit location tables to C&C - so a 20 becomes a critical success and a 1 becomes a critical failure. Still have to work some stuff out though.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:10 pm

I did once write up a system because Davis asked me for one. I don't actually use it, though.
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TWhaley · Post by **TWhaley** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:11 pm

On any natural 20 hit roll we use a deck of Critical Hit Cards that Paizo put out for Pathfinder (I think). At the begining of the game session we shuffle the deck and leave it on the table, whoever rolls a 20 draws from the top. Some of the cards are gritty, and it adds a fun element to gaming.

For fumbles (rolling a 1), we just do a dex check to see if you fell down, or droped your weapon, etc.

Camazotz · Post by **Camazotz** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:34 pm

I use the Paizo Critical Hit Deck, although prior to getting that I used the "20 = double damage" rule.
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cinderblock · Post by **cinderblock** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:12 pm

20 is a hit for max damage with the caveat (mentioned several times before) that if the roll that was needed to hit was 20 or higher, damage is rolled as normal.

A roll of a 1 is an automatic miss no other penalty. Still thinkin on this. Having fumble tables are always fun. Our group still says "You trip over an invisible turtle" when the 1 comes up.
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Falinor · Post by **Falinor** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:43 pm

I use a system similar to Aladar's.

If the player (or monster) rolls a nat 20, then they roll 2 d20s. One to determine location, the other to determine severity. The higher the roll, the more the damage, even instant death.

For fumbles, I ask the player to make another roll. The results can range from a simple fumble to accidentally hitting an ally for double damage.

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Do you have a critical hit system you use for C&C?

Do you have a critical hit system you use for C&C?

Re: Do you have a critical hit system you use for C&C?

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