Do you have a skill system for your C&C game?

vivsavage · Post by **vivsavage** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:01 pm

I'm curious as to what the most common house rule elements C&C players/GMs have. This one is about whether you have any sort of skill system for your C&C games.

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:28 pm

As apposed to the skill system inherent in the SIEGE engine?

R-
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vivsavage · Post by **vivsavage** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:13 pm

Rigon wrote:
As apposed to the skill system inherent in the SIEGE engine?

R-

Yes. I mean something more specific. I'm not sure if I'd call the siege engine a skill system or an attribute resolution system.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:42 pm

Not for C&C, no.
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capitalbill · Post by **capitalbill** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:35 pm

I haven't bothered with one yet, and I'm not really planning on it anytime soon. So far we've just adjudicated issues involving skills by using the characters background to determine proficiencies. It's worked well so far, but I know that others have imported skill systems and feel that they work well.
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Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:36 pm

I've not found a need for even having a skill based system. leaving things as a judgement call based on the temerity...err...inventiveness of the players seems to work in a much more fluid and enjoyable way. At least for the CK.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:27 am

I have one of my own craetion, but I have not institued it in my game, yet. And I may not. I treat skills as a class ability for which a character can normally do. That is, they will vs. prime or non-prime, and add attribute modifiers to the roll. Additinally, they'll get points to ass to their skills. I was rather proud of it, though it''s not terribly unique or intuitive. It's in my sig if anyone wants to check it out.
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Sir Osis of Liver · Post by **Sir Osis of Liver** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:05 am

No skills. Too restrictive.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:20 am

Yes. Sort of a meld between 2E proficiencies and d20 skill system.

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Frost · Post by **Frost** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:22 am

Nope. In a way, the SIEGE mechanic is an uber-condensed skill system. It just drops the foreplay of ranks/slots/etc. and based solely off class and attribute.
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:37 am

Again, depends on the group and their preferences. So, yes and no.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:24 am

If you count Weapon Mastery and the system put forth in Crusader #18 then, yes.

If you mean a fully fledged skill system like GURPS or d20 then, no.
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concobar · Post by **concobar** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:48 am

yes.

I imported 1ed AD&D thief skills and a simplified 3e skills list. I ditched the siege rule mainly because it can lead to some really wacky results.

In real life attributes matter but not so much as training and a good skill set IMO.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:53 pm

concobar wrote:
yes.

I imported 1ed AD&D thief skills and a simplified 3e skills list. I ditched the siege rule mainly because it can lead to some really wacky results.

In real life attributes matter but not so much as training and a good skill set IMO.

I actually wouldn't mind bringing back thief percentages but I think I would do them similar to 2nd Edition, where there are percentage points a player can use every level to customize his scores a bit.
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concobar · Post by **concobar** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:46 pm

Lord Dynel wrote:
I actually wouldn't mind bringing back thief percentages but I think I would do them similar to 2nd Edition, where there are percentage points a player can use every level to customize his scores a bit.

I went the 1e route for simplicity but think the 2e version would be just as fun and maybe just as easy.

HMB thief skills are very much like 2e AD&D.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:51 pm

If I were to go with a skill system, I would likely use something similar to the Warhammer Fantasy Role Play, The Arcanum, or Gary's skill bundles... but the XP amounts would be somewhat different. Maybe a hybrid between career and class...
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:45 pm

concobar wrote:
I went the 1e route for simplicity but think the 2e version would be just as fun and maybe just as easy.

HMB thief skills are very much like 2e AD&D.

I agree on the 2nd Edition ones being a bit more fun, but yeah, the 1st Edition ones are definitely easier. It's been on my mind for a while. I'll probably never do it, but it's nice to reminisce.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:54 am

My rules are designed mostly for just being clear on who can and cannot do what:

SKILLS and LANGUAGES:

If you want anything beyond what your chosen class give you do a back ground write up explaining how you were raised and trained. As long as you can make it a sensible and realistic back ground I don't care if you have 20 skills or languages. Consider 20 the limit, though.

When I decide a skill/language related roll is needed I will do it as if you have the relevant attribute as Prime, even if it is not, just like I treat Class Skills.

I will not accept skills that are too broadly defined, though. For example, Gymnastics is too broad. You must specify tumbling, balance beam, jumping, the horse, the rings, etc...

As for what a class automatically knows, lets use Wizard as an example. I will be willing to assume they "know" everything about spells, spell casting, spell creation, and creating scrolls, potions, and items. I will not assume they know about magical creatures, the planes of existence, etc...

Similar assumptions will be made for the other spell casting classes. You want them to know about monsters, the planes, etc... then do a back ground write up.

Now a fighter example. I will assume they know how best to fight as an individual and maintain their weapons and armor and how to ride their horse and give basic care to their horse and riding gear. If you want them to know how to make armor, weapons, leather goods, medically treat themselves or others, to be perceptive, etc... you must write up a background history.

For clarity, also list your skills you think your write up gives you. So after you finish your write up then list skills like this:

Weapon crafting

fishing

mountain climbing

skinning animals

etc...

EVERYONE HAS THE FOLLOWING, meaning they can add their level to the following checks:

COMMON ABILITIES

Common ability checks automatically improve as characters advance in level,

Common abilities include:

Strength: Feats of strength, jump, swim

Intelligence: Appraise, estimate, recall information

Wisdom: Perception, sense motive, direction sense

Dexterity: Balance, climb (simple things, like trees)

Constitution: Stamina, fortitude

Charisma: Bluff, haggle, intimidate, persuasion
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anglefish · Post by **anglefish** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:13 pm

In AD&D, I only played a thief because I could customize my "skills." One PC could be a street urchin, the other a dungeoneer.

Siege has enough wiggle room, though, that I'm completely happy with that. My only house rule to it is that you don't get your class levels if your attempting something that impedes on a fellow PCs class ability.

No ranger in the party? Great, let the druid make "tracking" rolls.

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:08 am

anglefish wrote:
Siege has enough wiggle room, though, that I'm completely happy with that. My only house rule to it is that you don't get your class levels if your attempting something that impedes on a fellow PCs class ability.

No ranger in the party? Great, let the druid make "tracking" rolls.

Exactly. That's what I would do.

I wouldn't be opposed to an "official" skill system, but the SIEGE engine takes care of it for me just fine as is.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:12 am

anglefish wrote:
No ranger in the party? Great, let the druid make "tracking" rolls.

I'd just Charm an animal into doing it for me. If I was a Druid tracking something. You know?
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Arazmus · Post by **Arazmus** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:51 am

no and to the abyss with skill-based systems. The special abilities of a class are his skills.
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ozchandler · Post by **ozchandler** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:40 pm

we use the RC skill system and skills. works fine, last a long time
edit: however, would still like to see an official skill system, or variant, in the up-coming CK guide.

redbeard · Post by **redbeard** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:48 am

We use the 1st edition DMG's "Secondary Skills" for non-adventuring class skills, but otherwise don't use a skill system besides SIEGE.

A character's class and prime picks are their skill training. If the character has a definite background (farmer, etc.) they might get a bonus on the SIEGE roll.

Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:59 pm

Nope. I don't like skill systems in D&D (or C&C); class and background is all I need, there. I like skills just fine in skill-based game systems, though.
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Stuie · Post by **Stuie** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:34 pm

No. Skills are for Traveller.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:06 pm

ozchandler wrote:
we use the RC skill system and skills. works fine, last a long time
edit: however, would still like to see an official skill system, or variant, in the up-coming CK guide.

That's a good one.
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ahwendorf · Post by **ahwendorf** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:51 pm

Currently, I'm using the 2e NWP system. Well, it's an enhanced list of those NWPs, but otherwise works the same. Seems to do just fine for augmenting the Prime/Non-Prime SEIGE system to add a bit of individuality to the characters.

Of course, playing once in a blue moon makes it so that any warts in that system are nicely hidden!

Rikitiki · Post by **Rikitiki** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:16 pm

For me, NO!

If I wanted a 'fantasy accounting' game, I'd be playing D&D

3rd or 4th. Hell, even 2nd Edition was too much of an

accounting game for my taste.

zacharythefirst · Post by **zacharythefirst** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:11 pm

I've been toying around with one, but I'm not sure if I'll incorporate it or not. It's just about 1 level above the basic "name 3 things your character is good at":

What follows is a basic skill subsystem to be used with Castles & Crusades. While Castles & Crusades admirably uses the SIEGE Engine for most in-game task resolution, some players and Castle Keepers may wish to demonstrate a heightened aptitude towards some disciplines. The system below is meant not to replace the SIEGE Engine, but to work within it to provide a basic skill system for gaming groups desiring one for C&C.

In this system, a player gets to begin play by selecting two skills at a +1 bonus at 1st levelmeaning they get to add +1 to any situations dealing with that discipline or skill. At Levels 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12, they may select one additional skill at +1, or add +1 to an existing skill.

(Example: Rolf takes Diplomacy and Profession: Blacksmith at first level, granting him a +1 bonus to any checks directly relating to these disciplines. At level two, he had the choice of either picking a new skill at +1 or adding +1 to the bonus on an existing skill. Since he's been really working on his sweet-talking so far, he chooses Diplomacy).

In regards to profession, players are expected to know the basic knowledge array for their class (Bard, Ranger, etc.), and do not need to spend a profession skill on this. They add in their level for this.

In this system, skills are generally capped at a +5 bonus.

Castle Keepers are encouraged to suggest that players actually utilize the skill they have selected or improved in through gameplay. Spending time with jealous courtiers in the court of a Duke, for example, would be very good grounds for a character to take diplomacy. Spending time assisting a field surgeon after a great battle would be a great reason for adding +1 to Heal.

Below are the skills available to characters for selection, along with a short explanation of that skill. The stat in parentheses (STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA) dictates what sort of SIEGE Engine check is normally made in conjunction with that skill.

Most skills below are self-explanatory, but note that the Profession skill generally includes being able to Craft items associated with a profession. Hence, there is no separate Craft skill.

Acrobatics (DEX)

Appraise (INT)

Bluff (CHA)

Climb (STR)

Craft (INT)

Diplomacy (CHA)

Disguise (CHA)

Escape Artist (DEX)

Handle Animal (CHA)

Heal (WIS)

Intimidate (CHA)

Knowledge:_______ (INT)

Perception(WIS)

Perform (CHA)

Profession (WIS)

Ride (DEX)

Sense Motive (WIS)

Stealth (DEX)

Survival (WIS)

Swim (STR)

Use Magical Device (CHA)
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Do you have a skill system for your C&C game?

Do you have a skill system for your C&C game?

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