Win 7...

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:39 pm

OK, in the SP2 thread a couple of board members said they have been "testing" Win 7 for a good while now, and that it is worth upgrading to.

Could you guys give some more feedback on why Win 7 is superior enough to upgrade to? I am looking at buying the "Family Pack" at $155.00 to upgrade 3 of my computers, and I would like to feel a little bit better about upgrading.

Like what is your opinion about the "TV Experts" saying we should wait to get it?

Do you think the "typical" home user won't even do enough with the OS to find any bugs that may still be there?

What do you guys think are the biggest "wins" for Win 7?
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:14 pm

The general consensus regarding that question seems to be linked to the OS you are currently using. If you have Vista, then an upgrade to Win 7 solves many of the issues and problems related to Vista (and those you have yet to encounter).

XP... given the various fixes over the years... is a great OS for what it is. If you have computers still equipped with XP, then by all means stick with it.

In terms of Win 7, performance is far improved over Vista and the hardware requirements are even a bit scaled back. However, I would think twice about upgrading to Win 7 if your computer is 3-4 years old and you're running XP.

Personally, I don't go upgrading to a new OS unless there is a reason to and usually get a new one at the time of a computer purchase. Even then I'll wait. Despite the various incarnations of Windows, there have only been three that I've dealt with.

1) Windows 95. I can't remember when I switched exactly but it was probably a year or two after it came out. The number 1 reason I switched was to play Diablo.

2) Windows 98. I switched maybe a year or so after it came out. It wasn't so much of a huge leap but the stability was greatly improved. I stuck with 98 for quite a few years.

3) Windows XP. A couple versions of Windows that came out after 98 just plain sucked. Windows ME was absolute garbage and I wasn't convinced of the architecture and work-in-progress of Windows 2000 which was being built on NT. Windows XP represented the biggest positive change since 98 so I switched about a year or two after it was released.

Windows 7 will probably be the fastest I adopt a 'promising' version of Windows but only because of my current hardware with is starting to fail. If I has a computer that was only 2-3 years old and functioning as it should, I'd probably stick it out longer with XP and wait before I upgraded.

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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:15 pm

I would avoid it, myself, for at least another 6 months - a year. Firstly, to make sure hardware is compatible, and secondly, to get the major obvious flaws fixed, whatever they might be. Having not used Vista for anything but fixing someone else's computer, I could not tell you in what ways they are different with any authority, though 7 seems to not have such a headache with UAC (Vista's annoying "are you sure you're sure?") but that's not based on real hard-core experience. 7 does seem somewhat faster, too... but that could just be that the requirements to run it are different.
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papercut · Post by **papercut** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:21 pm

It is actually the bees knees. The family pack is probably the sweet spot unless you can get the edu deal. Unless you have some very very random requirements you wont have any problems with it either- it is essentially a souped up service pack of Vista that can be run on computers that have no chance to run Vista. If your machine can run Xp pretty well, it can also run 7. For the first time in the history of computing (?) less hardware is needed to run a newer os. Reminds me of C&C in a way.

On a side note I just installed Ubuntu, a Linux Ddstro, and it seems to be pretty much just as good and it is free! The only thing I am missing on Ubuntu is iTunes, which it seems I can't live without anymore. If podcast and an iPod aren't your lifeline to America then you might not have that problem. You can download a boot cd to see how it works, then install it if you like it.

Egads, I have three machines in my room- a mac mini, a win nb, and an ubuntu pc. lol
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DaveyB · Post by **DaveyB** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:27 pm

I've beta tested it since before the release candidate offering and even then it was perfectly stable.

Why Windows 7 is superior to Vista:
MinWin- Componentized Windows core kernel that allows for a tighter OS with much less overhead. Windows is more responsive on systems with less memory and older technologies. To put it another way, I ran it on my 6.5 year old system with 1GB of RAM and it ran perfectly fine.

Enhanced start menu that is now actually realized instead of what Vista's start menu was.

Much less invasive User Account Control. Now comes with a slider for different levels of security, or can be turned off completely. On the default setting it's hardly noticeable compared to Vista.

Boots much faster than Vista could ever hope.

Desktop Window Manager, the service that handles the Aero desktop of Vista and 7, uses less memory than Vista.

It's the first version of Windows that I can easily recommend to replace XP. It's that good.
While I wasn't blown away with the transition from XP to 7 when I installed the beta (I wasn't expecting to be, it's Windows afterall. How different can it really be...), I also realized that it's a vast improvement to XP and I could not see myself ever wanting to go back to XP. Do not be scared of the switch, it is a worthwhile upgrade to say the least.

If you take one thing from my ramblings here, it's this: Windows 7 is what Vista should have been. It is the true, logical successor to Windows XP and is something Microsoft should really be proud of. From it's low overhead to quicker boot times to making things easier with a refined user interface, 7 is the real deal and do not buy into what the news or Macheads tell you.

DaveyB · Post by **DaveyB** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:37 pm

serleran wrote:
I would avoid it, myself, for at least another 6 months - a year. Firstly, to make sure hardware is compatible, and secondly, to get the major obvious flaws fixed, whatever they might be. Having not used Vista for anything but fixing someone else's computer, I could not tell you in what ways they are different with any authority, though 7 seems to not have such a headache with UAC (Vista's annoying "are you sure you're sure?") but that's not based on real hard-core experience. 7 does seem somewhat faster, too...

There is no reason to avoid it. The only reason to avoid it would be if your hardware is not compatible, but you would have to be running some seriously ancient hardware to not have it work. The only thing that I found not to work with 7 on my old 6.5 year old P4 was my old soundcard and a USB scanner that I bought when USB was the newest technology (yeah, it's that old); so I didn't expect the scanner to work and the soundcard hadn't had drivers since XP came out, so I didn't expect that to work either. Everything else has worked flawlessly.

UAC is not a headache. There is a slider you can use to tailor how much you want it to bug you, or you can just turn it off.

Quote:
but that could just be that the requirements to run it are so higher.

The requirements are essentially the same as Vista's, but unlike Vista, 7 actually runs and runs well on those requirements. Vista's should have been more along the lines of, 2GHz processor and 2-4GB of RAM w/a decent DX9 video card. 7 actually runs well on it's listed specs of 1GHz processor and 1GB of RAM.

Granted I run 7 on a newer Core i7 processor, but before I built my new system here I ran it on my older system which was:

P4 Northwood 3.0GHz processor

1GB of RAM

GeForce 6800GT graphics card

7 ran fine and far better than Vista could have hoped to. Granted it wasn't as snappy as my new system, but it was perfectly acceptable for everyday use.

DaveyB · Post by **DaveyB** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:41 pm

Oh, one other point to consider: If you have software that absolutely NEEDS Windows XP to run, 7 Professional and Ultimate offer virtualized Windows XP mode which is a fully virtualized copy of Windows XP w/SP3 to run applications that refuse to run on 7.

- Requires a processor with virtualization technology to run. Click here for a list of supported processors.[/url]

seskis281 · Post by **seskis281** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:14 pm

It's number is 7 so it must be lucky?....

We'll probably keep XP on our main computer, might update to 7 on the laptop running Vista though.

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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:16 pm

Cool, thanks for the feedback, I feel much more comfortable now.
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papercut · Post by **papercut** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:57 am

Try the hardware advisor to see if your computers will run 7:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... de-advisor
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:16 am

papercut wrote:
Try the hardware advisor to see if your computers will run 7:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... de-advisor

I did, said everything was compatible. Which I figured, everything is 3 years old or less.
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angelius · Post by **angelius** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:49 am

If it will solve my Vista crashing about once every 2 boots, I'm sold... and that's not for Hardware specs either.
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Jackal · Post by **Jackal** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:57 pm

Not only does it solve many of the Vista problems but it is also the first Windows in a long time to really add some much needed features.

The new taskbar and jump lists make everything so much easier to get to. In fact, the updated interface is more functional all around.

Windows 7 has caused me to rethink the way I structure my interface in almost every way. After playing with it for a day or two I can now do everything much faster than ever before.

For me, the stability and system requirements are the secondary selling points (important as they are). The new features and updated interface options are the real winners here.
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huds0n · Post by **huds0n** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:30 pm

Well yesterday i finally decided to make the jump from XP to Windows 7. I've always kind of been one of these "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kinda guys. And XP has always worked very well for me for many years.

So since there is no direct upgrade from XP to 7, i had been putting off the upgrade (or even thoughts of it). I was also toying with the idea of doing a complete hardware upgrade (my current rig is about 2 years old). After looking at all the options, i decided to do a Processor/Memory/Hard Drive upgrade and keep everything else.

I will post my specs for those who are considering upgrading:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200 Brisbane 2.7GHz Socket AM2

ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Wireless Edition AM2 NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard

Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)

Western Digital VelociRaptor 300GB 10000 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s

BFG NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 OC 896MB PCIe 2.0

So the actual install process for Windows 7 was absolutely the easiest, most error free install that I've ever had for a Microsoft OS. I didn't have to fetch a single motherboard or component driver and the install itself was completed in roughly 30 minutes. After completion, i did some house cleaning installations (anti-virus, apps), copied over some files from my XP build, and i was up and running 100 percent.

So for those who are considering making the jump from XP to 7, i would recommend looking long and hard at doing so. Just make sure you have enough hardware to support all of the features that Windows 7 supports. If you're not sure, download and install the Windows 7 upgrade adviser,
HERE!

Windows 7 gets a big thumbs up from me.
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dachda · Post by **dachda** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:33 pm

huds0n wrote:
Well yesterday i finally decided to make the jump from XP to Windows 7 yesterday. I've always kind of been one of these "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kinda guys. And XP has always worked very well for me for many years.

So since there is no direct upgrade from XP to 7, i had been putting off the upgrade (or even thoughts of it). I was also toying with the idea of doing a complete hardware upgrade (my current rig is about 2 years old). After looking at all the options, i decided to do a Processor/Memory/Hard Drive upgrade and keep everything else.

I will post my specs for those who are considering upgrading:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200 Brisbane 2.7GHz Socket AM2

ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Wireless Edition AM2 NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard

Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)

Western Digital VelociRaptor 300GB 10000 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s

BFG NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 OC 896MB PCIe 2.0

So the actual install process for Windows 7 was absolutely the easiest, most error free install that I've ever had for a Microsoft OS. I didn't have to fetch a single motherboard or component driver and the install itself was completed in roughly 30 minutes. After completion, i did some house cleaning installations (anti-virus, apps), copied over some files from my XP build, and i was up and running 100 percent.

So for those who are considering making the jump from XP to 7, i would recommend looking long and hard at doing so. Just make sure you have enough hardware to support all of the features that Windows 7 supports. If you're not sure, download and install the Windows 7 upgrade adviser,
HERE!

Windows 7 gets a big thumbs up from me.

I'll second this. My upgrade on a machine with similar specs, was fast and easy (no need for a floppy disk for sata drivers anymore! yipee!). So far everything is running smooth and easy, the new Aero eye candy looks and works nicely. So far no compatibility problems with either hardware or software. Though I've a few older games I've yet to try out.
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Barrataria · Post by **Barrataria** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:30 pm

So (aside from generalized idiocy levels, which we can't ever ignore) what's with the stories of "OMG! Itz so hard to upgrade from XP 11!!!!"?

Unfortunately I expect when it comes time for a new PC I won't be able to load XP, for one reason or another. I suspect the Vista failure will make Gates, Satan & Co. redouble their efforts to kill off XP. Hopefully my newer machines will hold up until the end of XP support in 2014 or whatever it is...
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:31 pm

I am liking mine so far, but so far I have only done upgrades from VISTA to WIN 7.

I have a laptop I would like to upgrade from XP to WIN 7, but I would have to buy a full version of WIN 7 to do that. So not likely to happen.
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huds0n · Post by **huds0n** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:19 pm

Barrataria wrote:
So (aside from generalized idiocy levels, which we can't ever ignore) what's with the stories of "OMG! Itz so hard to upgrade from XP 11!!!!"?

Unfortunately I expect when it comes time for a new PC I won't be able to load XP, for one reason or another. I suspect the Vista failure will make Gates, Satan & Co. redouble their efforts to kill off XP. Hopefully my newer machines will hold up until the end of XP support in 2014 or whatever it is...

It's not that it's hard, it's that it is literally impossible to do a upgrade from XP to Win 7. Now you can upgrade from Vista to 7, but not from XP to 7.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:26 pm

I bought the WIN 7 "Family pack" that allows me to do 3 of my computers for about $150, that disc also does the XP to WIN 7 upgrade, but unfortunately it wipes everything in the process, something I am not willing to do on this laptop of mine.

So I could do the upgrade, its just that I do not see it as being worthwhile, I have another desk top I would rather do.
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papercut · Post by **papercut** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:32 am

Treebore wrote:
I bought the WIN 7 "Family pack" that allows me to do 3 of my computers for about $150, that disc also does the XP to WIN 7 upgrade, but unfortunately it wipes everything in the process, something I am not willing to do on this laptop of mine.

So I could do the upgrade, its just that I do not see it as being worthwhile, I have another desk top I would rather do.

Fear not! A custom install will back up all your XP data in a folder called windows.old . You can then manually transfer the data you need. Programs can be backed up with http://ninite.com/ prior to upgrading. The ninite site will generate an exe file that will install the programs for ya afterwards. It is a beautiful thing. I would also make a backup of your data first before migrating.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:38 am

papercut wrote:
Fear not! A custom install will back up all your XP data in a folder called windows.old . You can then manually transfer the data you need. Programs can be backed up with http://ninite.com/ prior to upgrading. The ninite site will generate an exe file that will install the programs for ya afterwards. It is a beautiful thing. I would also make a backup of your data first before migrating.

Cool, I did not know that since I did not look at the custom install options, thanks!
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Sir Ironside · Post by **Sir Ironside** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:02 am

DaveyB wrote:
7 is the real deal and do not buy into what the news or Macheads tell you.

Could we stay away from comments like these please?

First I hear more doubt from Windows users than I do "Macheads" so to be fair don't listen to "Windowheads" either.

Second it does nothing to enhance any information that we might be able to get from this thread without having to sift through edition wars.
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huds0n · Post by **huds0n** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:36 pm

Sir Ironside wrote:
Could we stay away from comments like these please?

First I hear more doubt from Windows users than I do "Macheads" so to be fair don't listen to "Windowheads" either.

Second it does nothing to enhance any information that we might be able to get from this thread without having to sift through edition wars.

Just so everyone knows, i own and use Mac as well as Windows PCs. I think both have strengths and weaknesses. So take my "review" of Windows 7 with a grain of salt. But do know that i enjoy both platforms and use both regularly. Hell i even enjoy Linux/Unix, but am still learning it.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:18 am

Linux rules of course!
I expect to pick up a notebook with Win7, just to toy with it - as I've done with every version of winblows since it's inception.
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:40 am

I am a linux and windows user and will say from personal experience that Windows 7 is the most solid "out of the box" version of windows yet. McBain and I are I.T. guys and approach this from a technical standpoint, so I will reiterate to take what we say with a grain of salt. I am not averse to flattening a system and reinstalling from the ground up on a moment's notice, but not everyone feels this way. Having said that, I have not had to reinstall windows 7 yet due to an issue with the OS. I've been running it since early beta. One of the best features of win 7 is that its built-in backup software will do a full backup capable of a bare metal restore, much like GHOST or ACRONIS TRUEIMAGE.

papercut · Post by **papercut** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:41 am

Treebore, I much prefer the new avatar!
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Sir Ironside · Post by **Sir Ironside** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:38 am

My biggest problem with both Vista and Win7 is that I heard it won't support things like Adobe CS3 and I'd have to re-buy the Adobe suite just to use it on Win7. Huge... huge turn-off (Adobe suite ain't cheap).

Now someone said something about a virtual XP, how hard is it to use? I like my OS to be a simple as possible and would hate to have to go through 10 steps just to get Illustrator, Photoshop, In Design etc. to work.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:52 am

You can set WIN 7 to run as a specific old WIN OS, such as Windows VISTA, XP, or 95.

Its not terribly simple, but you open Control Panel and type "Troubleshoot" into the search window, then you "browse" to find the program you need to set up, then tell it which version of Windows you wish for it to run in, then it should work.
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Barrataria · Post by **Barrataria** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:32 pm

Treebore wrote:
You can set WIN 7 to run as a specific old WIN OS, such as Windows VISTA, XP, or 95.

That's been a feature with every version, and it almost never works.

It's interesting that the "upgrade" function for XP sounds like it just reformats the hard drive
Is it hard to install in a partition, or has anyone tried that?
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:34 pm

Ironside, the XP emulation layer is *supposed* to be seamless and fast. I have not used it yet, but several reports from beta testers say it's all but transparent to the user. It is not built into windows 7 by default (unlike the compatibility layer which tree discusses above), but is a true emulation overlay and not just a compatibility mode. Also, there is a freeware emu out there called virtualbox that is very good and will let you run winxp (or other flavors of win or even linux) inside your windows 7 environment, albeit with a performance hit depending on how beefy the machine is and what OS you are running in the VM environment.