Do you ask for spellcasting concentrtion checks in melee?

Andhaira · Post by **Andhaira** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:26 am

So a goblin is fighting your wizard in melee. The wizard casts magic missile. Would you ask for a concentration check? If so what attribute would you use, wisdom or constitution?

zombiehands · Post by **zombiehands** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:23 pm

My house rule is if a spell is cast in melee it draws a free attack from all enemies if any attacks hit the spell is lost. If the spell has a range of touch is does not provoke free attacks.

Concnetration rolls are too 3rd/4th edition for me an too powerful.

Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:57 pm

I do not require a concentration check. Should such be the case, then this check would and should also apply to any spell caster such as clerics, druids, illusionists, and such home-ruled classes. Nor to I allow free attacks against them for casting...obviously if they're adventurers they have some proficiency and practice at casting under duress IMO.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:55 pm

The PHB mentions, I believe in the pages right before the spell descriptions, the possible use of a "concentration check." I do not, under 99% of circumstances, use such a thing...but there are the 1% moments where it might be fun to give the chance, just to add a little drama to the event. Maybe the bad guy can keep the spell... maybe you can too. In moments where I want the players to sweat, the dice will roll. After all, that keeps things a little more exciting when you don't know what's going to happen.
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Sir Osis of Liver · Post by **Sir Osis of Liver** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:45 pm

Stupid question...what in the hell is the wizard doing in melee?!

PeelSeel2 · Post by **PeelSeel2** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:14 pm

Sir Osis of Liver wrote:
Stupid question...what in the hell is the wizard doing in melee?!

Cursing the fighters in the party....
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Sir Osis of Liver · Post by **Sir Osis of Liver** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:44 am

PeelSeel2 wrote:
Cursing the fighters in the party....

Ah yes. Of course.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:51 am

Andhaira wrote:
Would you ask for a concentration check?

No.
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Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:01 am

[quote="Sir Osis of Liver"]Stupid question...what in the hell is the wizard doing in melee?![/quote]

getting ginsued 'cause he forgot to wear his sneakers of expeditious retreat that day.
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Sir Osis of Liver · Post by **Sir Osis of Liver** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:51 am

Go0gleplex wrote:
getting ginsued 'cause he forgot to wear his sneakers of expeditious retreat that day.

Ginsu. Nice. But wait...THERE'S MORE! A CE CK (like me) can have lots of fun with this kind of scenario. If there were a spellcaster on the monster's side, I'd have it doing its best to charm the dufus mage in the middle of melee to turn him on his comrades. Who do we attack now? Mage, here's your sign.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:25 pm

After playing a few games since this topic came up, I am considering using a concentration check if any caster attempts to cast a somantic and/or material based spell while engauged in melee combat. Perhaps, the casting of any VSM spell while in melee combat should require a concentration check? Hmm.

~O
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Sir Osis of Liver · Post by **Sir Osis of Liver** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:29 pm

I would think it would depend on the initiative order as well. If the spellcaster gets his/her effect off before being hit, then I wouldn't think that a check would be needed. However, if the spellcaster is hit before his/her turn in the initiative order, then a check would be appropriate.

Still begging the question, what in the hell is the wizard/illusionist doing in melee in the first place while he/she still has spells to use? The party that lets that happen is just begging for trouble (which makes life interesting for a devious...err...inventive...CK).

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:54 pm

A smart wizard wouldn't be in melee combat. But there are always those situations where the wizard might be ambushed, or caught in the wrong place during a combat in an enclosed area. Just makes sense that wizard should sit on top of their towers rading dustry tomes.

~O
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anonymous · Post by **anonymous** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:46 pm

I don't see how a Wizard could be engaged in melee and cast a spell at all: you're fighting, then you put down your staff or sheath your dagger, stand still and start muttering and waving your arms? You're going to get stabbed, bludgeoned, clawed, bitten or whatever and it serves you right.

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:50 pm

Yep, agreeing with most of ya . . a wizard generally isn't in melee, but may be subject to a missile attack from some distance. If arrows are flying at the wiz, I might ask for a roll on concentration when it's his turn - as serle suggests the 1% situation.
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JediOre · Post by **JediOre** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:32 pm

I've been using a system I either developed or was shown back in the 1980s so I don't know who gets the credit. It works well for me & mine.

We have a back and forth so to speak, with the winning side of initiative going first during each "phase" of combat. Any spell caster has to declare if they are casting a spell before hand.

1. Instant effects, like readied items or monster's innate abilities.

2. Missile weapons.

3. Breath weapons & magic items.

4. Spell casting.

5. Melee and movement.

So if during the first three "phases" a spell caster takes damage or is otherwise distracted, their spell fizzles. In my games a premium is placed upon scrolls and wands for combat purposes.

Vetterix · Post by **Vetterix** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:37 pm

If a concentration check were required in every case of melee vs spell caster, then it would be very easy to shut down spellcasters in general; including opponent spell casters.

Casters already have a significant disadvantage in terms of HP, and for many AC, should a melee or archer get on them. They do not last too long if they remain in combat with a melee of similar level. With a concentration check, they would be easily countered by, perhaps a handful of, lower level opponents.

As others have said, casting in combat is a basic, and necessary, skill for any spellcaster - you would never get past 1st level with out it.

I look at extenuating circumstances as appropriate for concentration rolls (such as being hit by surprise from behind, grappled, etc) with the concentration roll based on the prime ability for the type of magic (Wizard Int, Cleric - Wis, etc).

Sir Osis of Liver · Post by **Sir Osis of Liver** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:44 pm

For me, it's a fairly simple argument whether or not to ask for such a check. If the spellcaster is hit in combat while casting the spell, he has to check to see that he hasn't been distracted. There are other effects that serve to distract spellcasters. You really shouldn't have to use the mechanic all that much.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:14 pm

I dont call for concentration checks unless the spell caster is actually hit. And that is regardless of melee, missle, or magic damage. I also dont give free attacks just for casting spells in "dangerous" areas. everyone gets their attack when their turn comes and if they hit a wizard using a spell they get the reward of possibly shattering his concentration.

Edit: I do call for concentration checks for certain illusion spells as well. If a caster fails a save vs. silent image of even ghost sound on up to the bettr spells. CL = spell level plus illusionist's attribute bonus .
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Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:38 pm

If a spell caster is hit whilst casting a spell, I rule that his spell fails. Nice and simple.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:59 pm

Matthew wrote:
If a spell caster is hit whilst casting a spell, I rule that his spell fails. Nice and simple.

How many spells actually take long enough to cast that you can hit somebody before it takes effect? I only know of very few.
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Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:33 pm

CharlieRock wrote:
How many spells actually take long enough to cast that you can hit somebody before it takes effect? I only know of very few.

I assume actions are occurring simultaneously in the round, so any that have not already been cast before the attack comes.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:02 pm

Matthew wrote:
I assume actions are occurring simultaneously in the round, so any that have not already been cast before the attack comes.

Oh, I usually go with a point to point action sequence. Swing, roll, do damage, if hp drops to zero they dont get to swing back. I've played games with simultaneous actions. Just not in C&C.
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Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:13 pm

CharlieRock wrote:
Oh, I usually go with a point to point action sequence. Swing, roll, do damage, if hp drops to zero they dont get to swing back. I've played games with simultaneous actions. Just not in C&C.

well... a character does not get to attack if he is dead, that is kind of the point, just like he will not get to cast if he is hit before his action comes up in the round. Some games I have seen that use stable initiative from round to round tend to obscure the importance of the round as a unit of time, so when I say "simultaneous" I mean two characters can start the round 60' apart and both close 30' in the round to meet in the middle.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:34 pm

Matthew wrote:
well... a character does not get to attack if he is dead, that is kind of the point, just like he will not get to cast if he is hit before his action comes up in the round. Some games I have seen that use stable initiative from round to round tend to obscure the importance of the round as a unit of time, so when I say "simultaneous" I mean two characters can start the round 60' apart and both close 30' in the round to meet in the middle.

Oh, okay. I thought you meant you determine what everybodys doing, roll dice, and then apply the results simultaneously.
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Do you ask for spellcasting concentrtion checks in melee?

Do you ask for spellcasting concentrtion checks in melee?

Re: Do you ask for spellcasting concentrtion checks in melee