Transitioning New Players to Existing Group???

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:15 pm

You describe the world, it's unique cultures, races, political structures etc. You define it as humancentric, low magic, with xenophobic societies on the verge of civil war.

The new player says, "Sounds cool. Can I play a cthulhu spawn weasel race hybrid? They are a race of sorcerer kings that survive by feeding on the essence of magic and never touch food nor do they sleep."

My first responce is to wonder if they read anything I took the time to extrapolate.

My second responce is to wonder how I can best transition new player/play styles into an existing group already set in their style of play?

My next question is what is it with people?

Is it a play style difference?

A generational gap maybe?

How do you guys as a GMs deal with all the different ages and play styles that at first hand don't seem to mesh? Are their some table chemistries that just does not work, or can all gamers and game styles find ways to sit at the same table and enjoy the same game?
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:00 am

They don't mesh and they shouldn't be forced to. There are different rule sets, genres, game philosophies, etc for a reason. Not everyone likes the same thing or expects the same thing when they sit at a table.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:16 am

Dangerdwarf...this is true but I thought also obvious. I have never heard the term munchkin used as a compliment. Though we are all well aware of different games styles, it is also implied that some carry stigmas with them. It is also understood that some styles facilitate teamwork better than others. This is based in fact, not preference.

We can discuss this honestly or we can become politically correct.

I have been gaming long enough to know about different styles. I also still think that there is enough room at the table to accomodate everyone if given some effort.

My question is looking for suggestions or tactics in combining such differneces in a constructive manner.

I don't know about your area, but in my area the number of gaming groups is very limited and I would prefer to incorporate all players.

It is not a question of forcing anyone to accept anothers style but rather how does one deal with meshing different styles?

According to your comment it would seem better to just kick the person from the group. This seems a bit extreme to me.

My question concerns how have others dealt with the subject.

Is it a question of different styles or different generations?

How have others dealt with similar situations?
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'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim

'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:43 am

I live in BFE Texas and gamers can be fairly tough to come by. Even so, I don't try to mesh my groups style with the style of a new player. They either adapt to the majority or find another group.

I'm not an ass about it when we do it, but yeah several times we've asked a few folks to look for game elsewhere. Not because we didn't like them, not because we thought their style was inferior, or anything like that. Their style didn't mesh with our style and we chose to play short handed rather than lessen the group fun as a whole.

Anyone seeking an established group has to respect the style of the group and not disrupt it, and in my personal opinion getting players of fairly different playstyles to the core of your group simply to fill a chair is a less than desirable way to go.

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:49 am

Answer = NO!

I would suggest to the player to pick one of the defined classes in your game to get him/her into the game fast and easy.

And also tell him that the character/class type that he is interested in could possibly something to talk about outside the game - or possibly as an NPC or monster type.

What game system are you using and does the new PC have the template for character creation?

I use C&C and I did have one new character ask about being a evil assassin.

I said yes, you can try it, but consider this: How hard is it going to be for your character to join the group??

In our game, if the party encountered a character type like your new player wants to try - he would most likely be attached and killed on sight. Not much chance to even discuss whether he/she could join the party.

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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:08 am

I tell them we don't play that "style" of game, and that they need to look for a group appropriate to their preferences.
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:33 am

I keep my mind flexible. Trying to fit people into a given mould just makes me twitch. Fortunately my campaign setting is adaptable to any style of play. Someone wants to put together some sort of weird combo, well, its a big universe, I expect it to exist somewhere.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:50 am

gideon_thorne wrote:
I keep my mind flexible. Trying to fit people into a given mould just makes me twitch. Fortunately my campaign setting is adaptable to any style of play. Someone wants to put together some sort of weird combo, well, its a big universe, I expect it to exist somewhere.

Not sure what you are saying, Peter. Sure, such a bizarre character could exist in any world . . but bring it down to a microcosm ~ would you allow him/her in an adventuring party and - why??

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"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:35 am

Yeah. I prefer players who want a tough character, but I do not prefer players who look for every numerical advantage to their PC. I don't like dealing with them as a CK, and I don't like playing with them either.

As CK I don't have to deal with them, so ask them to go elsewhere for their munchkin fix because I don't want to deal with it. Plus my players usually don't like it either.

So unless they seem to be someone who can mesh well enough not to disrupt the enjoyment of the others, I ask them to go elsewhere. So the usual result is for them to go to another group.
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Fat Dragon Games · Post by **Fat Dragon Games** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:43 am

DangerDwarf wrote:
They don't mesh and they shouldn't be forced to. There are different rule sets, genres, game philosophies, etc for a reason. Not everyone likes the same thing or expects the same thing when they sit at a table.

DD- you can make anyone like anything with the proper attitude adjustment, try using your stun gun.
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Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:27 am

It's the Darwinism of gaming;

Adapt or perish (figuratively speaking)
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Joe · Post by **Joe** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:33 am

Yeah I think you guys are right.

Give the person a chance to roll the dice but if the new guy cannot find a way to mesh themselves then it usually falls upon the job of the GM/CK to break the news. Luckily for me I'm just a player this time.

I think there is an age issue too. Maybe it's a maturity level, I don't know.

Many of the kids I know want to play vampires, or something.

Younger players I know want to play the odd schemed race, or multi-class.

There seems to be a predisposed fantasy that the player wishes to exercise.

This does not always "mesh" and it is up to the player to find something that does.

I consider the game a cooperative storytelling with thrills and chills that is a shared experience.

I have known some that are adversarial in the approach to gaming.

Some seem to think the DM/CK/GM is out to get the party...and maybe some are. The only player I can remember uninviting was due to this "style" of play.

I guess it was the "Plays Well With Others" department.

We are a group in flux right now and though we may have players that are settled in their ways...the group itself is still forming it's own chemistry.

We are playtesting an OGL homebrew of my own concoction.

The world is very...specific in genre and racial stock unlike more generic settings which I think are more open to rare and exotic races.

Think something like Conan instead of Rifts.

If your playing a Conan game, why would one need to explain that space aliens or gunslingers just might not "mesh"?

I also think we can learn to appreciate and even enjoy diverse approaches to gaming...maybe???
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'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:41 am

You understand the chthulhu/weasel folk hybrid was just an example right?
Of course if you were in Peter's game you would have to ask whether it's the blue meateating chthulhu/weasel folk hybrid, or the green vegetarian variety.
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'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim

'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:09 pm

I've found when you add players that are that wildly different in 'style' you usually end up doing twothings (neither are very good). The new player makes a wreck of your current game and constantly grandstands/attention grabs. An old player gets pist and stops gaming.

You can almost tell the new guy is going to try to grandstand in-game just from the crazy "Hey, Lookit MEEEEE!" character race. And until they blend in better your only going to test your old players' patience.
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ThrorII · Post by **ThrorII** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:08 pm

I had a player in the last few months (playing C&C in Greyhawk 576CY) who came to me with his idea for a human barbarian, with 3's in intelligence, wisdom and charisma, and 18's in everything else (we use point buy), and had his right hand hacked off with a ball-and-chain hammered on the stump.

I explained that such a character (3's in int, wis, cha) would be barely above animal intelligence--almost unable to speak, barely cognizant of the world around him, and probably horribly disfigured (think Master-blaster, from Thunderdome). The player was excited by this prospect, as it was what he was 'going for'.

I then proceeded to tell him that the group probably (no, most definitely) would not put up with such a monstrosity in their midst longer than it took to find a nice church, monestary, orphanage, orc hole, slave mine or sink hole to drop him off....and that he would not be any wiser of it either way. He could then roll up a new character that fit better.

He got the idea (for the moment).

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:17 pm

Rhuvein wrote:
Not sure what you are saying, Peter. Sure, such a bizarre character could exist in any world . . but bring it down to a microcosm ~ would you allow him/her in an adventuring party and - why??

Sure I would. Its a fantasy game, and folks can play any silly thing they want. I just ask that the player give me a good reason as to why and how their character idea came about.
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anglefish · Post by **anglefish** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:56 am

Joe wrote:
Many of the kids I know want to play vampires, or something.

Younger players I know want to play the odd schemed race, or multi-class.

Not necessarily. I have an older player who hates anything that looks like "vanilla fantasy" and wants to play something different because they "want to avoid the cliches." Not realizing the irony, of course.

I often include a "funky" race just for such players. I often give such players less magic items to balance things out.

As a side note, Crusader 20 had a couple of funky races that might be right up this player's alley.

The ones you have to watch out for are the subtle guys. They create a character that's believable in your game world, but don't fit the theme and often to their advantage.

Like the guy who wants to play a prince that slumming with rest of the working class party. Or the guy who insists on being the native when the campaign focus is on the marooned foreigners.

Frost · Post by **Frost** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:35 am

It is well within the CK's rights to disallow anything like that. I think it should be more of the CK setting the boundaries of what works in the campaign and the players finding something with those boundaries they like. Players can and should contribute, but I don't care for sense of entitlement on a player's part. If you don't want to be forced into a "cliche," then find a campaign that isn't "cliche." The CK is the one spending the time prepping the campaign, buying the materials, etc. The least the players can do is respect that.

This fellow seems to be really trying to push things, and not in a good way. I've learned the hard way that a GM has to be careful what he lets into his campaign. Ultimately, it will fall on him whether a particular PC makes or breaks the campaign. This is why I will no longer allow evil alignments or alignment extreme classes (such as necromancers or paladins) in my campaigns unless that PC is going to fit in with the group in general. I was too open at once and ended up with a paladin and necromancer in the same party. The necromancer ended up being restricted from doing his thing, from no fault of his own or the other players. The other players' PCs logically wouldn't go for him raising the dead and he, logically, wanted to do it all the time. It just didn't work and the player ended up quitting and I can't say I blame him. It wasn't hi fault or the other players' fault. It was mine for letting him play a necromancer in the first place.
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Joe · Post by **Joe** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:45 am

Ok let's not beat up on newbies too much.

I was using an extreme example to protect the innocent.

I had to laugh about the cliche comment. Fantasy is cliche in it's mere essence.
Hey ThrorII, maybe these guys can get together and make a really cool game!

Some ideas really make you wonder. The ticker here is when you are being approached with these sorts of ideas the player actually thinks they are being clever. Instead of munchkins I propose we call them "Clevers"

You guys raise some good points. I'll keep you posted how it turns out. Hopefully we will be happily surprised!

And hopefully he is not a TLG forum junkie. He would probably be cussing me out and telling me where to put my game if thats the case.

truth is I did not post to bag on him or the genre of munchkins. I just find it interesting how others deal with similar issues.
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'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim

'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell

Dorien · Post by **Dorien** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:11 pm

You might try something like this.

I had a PC who liked to go to bars, pick fights with the bar-tender and burn the place down. After the second trip to a bar, I made in effort to show why that wasn't the norm.

As his character is pouring oil all over the bar so that it would burn real fast, a NPC throws a tourch from accross the room into the oil. The PC is nearly killed by the burst of flames.

He then decided to stab someone in the back as the crowd is trying to exit, thinking that would be fun too! I'm sure that PC had just as much fun stabbing a fleeing patron in the back, as the 2nd NCP did stabbing him in the back.

I tell my group to try NOT to become the object of a quest/adventure. Sometime you just gotta let them be the quest...

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Transitioning New Players to Existing Group???

Transitioning New Players to Existing Group???

Re: Transitioning New Players to Existing Group???

Re: Transitioning New Players to Existing Group???

Re: Transitioning New Players to Existing Group???