CL vs DC: Help Needed....

LordSeurek · Post by **LordSeurek** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:48 pm

So, I got the converting down from 3X to c&c for the basic bits in terms of critters.

I have been using the critters HD for the CL for saves. An NPC/monster in my game is level 18 (the party probably wont be in battle with it, but I want to be prepared.) So the CL for the saves vs the NPC/monsters spells would be 18

One person gave the following for converting from 3X:

DC 15 = CL 0

In a 3X description of this critter it says the save DC is 10+ 1/2(HD)+Cha Mod = 10+9+4 = 23.

23-15 = CL 8

One method has CL 8 while the other has CL 18.

Can someone indicate what they would do in this case?

Thx, L.S.
_________________
When All of your wishes have been granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed" -- M.Manson (Man That You Fear)

Society Member: http://www.cncsociety.org/

Jackal · Post by **Jackal** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:55 pm

It's been a long time since I played any 3e but, as I recall, that system gave out more hit points than C&C by a fair amount. So you may consider lowering the creature's hit dice but, beyond that, I'd stick with HD = CL when converting a critter to C&C.

I've done that many times in my games and it always worked out fine, though I did generally lower the total hit dice when converting larger beasties.
_________________
Baron Greymoor
Troll Lord Games
Castles & Crusades Society

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:59 pm

You had it right with CL 18.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

seskis281 · Post by **seskis281** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:03 pm

I concur - I've been using 3e MM, MM2 and Fiend Folio and I use the HD for CL and typically halve the HPs of most critters (not always, sometimes I'll cut more, sometimes less).

My own take is that an 8 CL would be low for that monster's CL to save, on its particular strength for saves (either Physical or Mental)... it should be harder and harder to fail a save for that big a monster just as it is for a PC, while it should be relatively easy for it to fail against things that are not in its save focus. To me this is one of the things that helps preserve party balance needs for a group as they get stronger.

_________________
John "Sir Seskis" Wright

Ilshara: Lands of Exile:
http://johnwright281.tripod.com/

High Squire of the C&C Society
www.cncsociety.org

LordSeurek · Post by **LordSeurek** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:20 pm

Thanks for the quick replies all. Will keep it at CL=HD for now.

Maybe I will check on the HD for a bunch of critters in both thr M&T and some 3X monsters books to see how the HD compares. Maybe it is lower....

L.S.
_________________
When All of your wishes have been granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed" -- M.Manson (Man That You Fear)

Society Member: http://www.cncsociety.org/

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:06 pm

It's not an across theboard thing. Like shadow Mastiffs are the same HD, but Satyr are 2 HD lower in C&C.
_________________
The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

LordSeurek · Post by **LordSeurek** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:26 am

Yeah, I went thru a bunch of them. Most are the same, some even higher in c&c, and a couple of are lower. Will keep as is for now.
_________________
When All of your wishes have been granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed" -- M.Manson (Man That You Fear)

Society Member: http://www.cncsociety.org/

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:10 am

Generally, unless you want to get extremely technical about things, the HD = CL. Some variation between d20 and C&C is natural because d20 was not used as the baseline --- AD&D was.
_________________
If it matters, leave a message at the beep.
Serl's Corner

Sir Osis of Liver · Post by **Sir Osis of Liver** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:13 am

Yeah, I haven't done a whole lot of converting d20 to C&C. I've been far more interested in AD&D monsters.