Death, Reincarnation, Raise Dead and Ressurection

[Vetterix]

The death penalty (if you will) for raise dead and resurrection is 1 point of CON while for reincarnate, CON depends on the new body and a level is lost (if first level, the new CON is reduced by 1).

I am curious as to why the penalty for reincarnate, the loss of a level, seems more significant than for raise dead or resurrection (also given the primary side-effect of changing form). Is the rationale that reincarnate is a 4th level druid spell vs Raise Dead which is a 5th level cleric spell ?

The reincarnation description includes a comment about a wish spell restoring form, but no mention about restoring the lost level. Do you rule that it would or would not restore the lost level ?

How about restoring the loss of the CON point, possible with a limited wish ?
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[serleran]

I do not have reincarnate impose any penalty. It is a badass spell.
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[Coleston the Cavalier]

Being raised from the dead is really hard on your body.

Reincarnate isn't.
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John Adams

[gideon_thorne]

Coleston the Cavalier wrote:
Reincarnate isn't.

Ya, its just hard on something else's body.
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Peter Bradley

[Coleston the Cavalier]

gideon_thorne wrote:
Ya, its just hard on something else's body.

Exactly.
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John Adams

[Go0gleplex]

New body vs Recycled Rebuild.

New body takes time to get used to; arguement could be (I said could) made that since you're not completely comfortable in the new form you can't use your skills as efficiently/skillfully as you once did.

Recycle/Rebuild...well...it's been beat up a bit and you'll never get it in as good of condition as it was new.

Personally...other than a CON penalty...I pretty much ignore the other stuff. The players will be paying through the nostrils pretty much anyhow just to get revived.
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High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

[Traveller]

I've implemented system shock rolls in my games. Straight 1d20, roll less than CON or die permanently. Success reduces CON by 1, as noted in the spell description.
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[gideon_thorne]

Coleston the Cavalier wrote:
Exactly.

PC Death is the CK's way of telling you its time to roll up a new character.
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Peter Bradley

[Lurker]

Quote:
PC Death is the CK's way of telling you its time to roll up a new character.

or to run away from that ancient red dragon when your only 5thish level!
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[LordSeurek]

Its a level down process in my games with no CON loss.

L.S.
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[Vetterix]

gideon_thorne wrote:
PC Death is the CK's way of telling you its time to roll up a new character.

Depending on the situation, it might be an indication for the players to find another CK.

Shit happens, and PCs die even when not doing stupid things - a series of bad rolls, having to make non-prime saving throws which often have a greater chance of failing than not, etc. There are non-trivial penalties in dieing as CON or Level loss is significant (as can just finding someone to raise dead in time).
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[LordSeurek]

Vetterix wrote:
There are non-trivial penalties in dieing as CON or Level loss is significant (as can just finding someone to raise dead in time).

Raise Dead spells/scrolls may be out of the scope in some games depending on availability / finances, and so on.
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[Treebore]

When PC's die in my games I act like a given god is sitting in judgement of the deceased. So when a PC dies I decide if they died well, or died stupidly. If they died well they suffer no penalty. If they died due to stupidity, or due to not being a good worshiper (IE tithing, or claim not to believe in gods, etc...) they get punished with what is in the books, or worse, if they are a non believer.

I never bought into system shock, etc... this is a god bringing a being back from death. Gods do not screw such things up, nor would they waste their time allowing their power to be channeled just so you could die again from some failed check. They ether raise you, or they don't.

Like in my games and your evil, you will not be raised, unless you are doing something so evil that the evil god wishes you, specifically, to be the one to finish your work. If not, they would much rather have you die so they can start torturing your soul for the rest of eternity ASAP. They have plenty of other canon fodder to have finish evil works.
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[Traveller]

The entire reason deities have clerics is to guide their worshipers. To this end, the deity bestows a tiny amount of power upon the cleric on a daily basis. What the cleric does with that power is at his or her discretion, though it is assumed that the cleric will work in the best interests of their deity.

A deity isn't going to take much interest in the death and possible rebirth of one person since in true Clash of the Titans style, we are toys to them. An exception to this would be a favored mortal that is on the road to immortality himself or herself. If that were the case, then I could see the deity in question making sure the resurrection succeeds and thus his favored mortal returning to life.

If it was the deity himself doing the resurrection, then your point of view regarding system shock is a valid one. However, it's not the deity doing the casting, but a mortal. Since the cleric is the one casting the spell, and since the cleric is a mortal being, there is a chance of a mortal failure. Thus the system shock roll.
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[Treebore]

Traveller wrote:
The entire reason deities have clerics is to guide their worshipers. To this end, the deity bestows a tiny amount of power upon the cleric on a daily basis. What the cleric does with that power is at his or her discretion, though it is assumed that the cleric will work in the best interests of their deity.

A deity isn't going to take much interest in the death and possible rebirth of one person since in true Clash of the Titans style, we are toys to them. An exception to this would be a favored mortal that is on the road to immortality himself or herself. If that were the case, then I could see the deity in question making sure the resurrection succeeds and thus his favored mortal returning to life.

If it was the deity himself doing the resurrection, then your point of view regarding system shock is a valid one. However, it's not the deity doing the casting, but a mortal. Since the cleric is the one casting the spell, and since the cleric is a mortal being, there is a chance of a mortal failure. Thus the system shock roll.

I am old school on that one. First to 3rd level spells are not handled by a given god, but 4th level and above are, and irregardless all of the divine power is "channeled", meaning it comes straight from the deities essence/font of divine power. Plus in my view, a deity's entertainment is watching us mere mortals, and sticking their nose into the lives of their devout worshipers, especially the movers and shakers, such as "adventurers".

I agree, they do not care about "normal" people who only do what they need to do in order to make it from one day to the next. Those who go out and make things happen are a different story entirely. Those are adventures, which usually become Saga's, tales told again and again, which are also used to make people of gods, and maybe influence the masses who hear these stories to become worshipers.

So to be raised, reincarnated, resurrected, etc... in the first place, you must be a "mover and a shaker", which means you are one of several groups of people, the most common of which for PC's is "adventurer". If your a PC out there fighting chaos and/or evil, helping people, making news, and reflecting well up the gods, your PC is a candidate for being brought back to life.

So I sit in judgment on the given PC, hear the petition as to why they wish to be brought back to life (keep being played), and I pass judgment. After all, this involves some of the gods most powerful magics, and word will certainly be spread about the god granting new life to the adventurer. So the god wants to get all the good PR out of it they can, so act accordingly.
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[Traveller]

You are "old school", since Supplement IV of OD&D made no mention whatsoever how deities grant their spells. So channeling or granting spells is perfectly fine by me in that regard. It's just not something I would ever do in the game, given that I believe deities should have a "hands off" approach unless playing with their toys. And I think that's where we come to cross purposes, since your view of deities is different from mine.

*starts to retch at hearing the words "old school"*...now I can safely say I hate that term.
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[Treebore]

Traveller wrote:
You are "old school", since Supplement IV of OD&D made no mention whatsoever how deities grant their spells. So channeling or granting spells is perfectly fine by me in that regard. It's just not something I would ever do in the game, given that I believe deities should have a "hands off" approach unless playing with their toys. And I think that's where we come to cross purposes, since your view of deities is different from mine.

*starts to retch at hearing the words "old school"*...now I can safely say I hate that term.

Well, I meant old school as in 1E and the Greyhawk setting. That is when they broke down how 1st to 3rd level spells were "given" which gods could award 4th and 5th level spells, lesser gods awarded 6th level, and Greater gods only could give 7th level spells.

I don't see the deities as "hands off", otherwise they wouldn't even grant spells, let alone bring people back from the dead, so we definitely see things differently. Having such spells, plus divinations, communes, etc... just tells me they are anything but "hands off", so I go with it that way.
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