How do you determine Spells Known?

[Ogre]

When you first create a character, how do you determine how many spells are known/allowed to pick from.

Is it just the exact same as spells per day?

Thanks for any tips on how you do this.

[Go0gleplex]

I typically roll for them. A d12 for 0 level spells...and a d20 for the 1st level spells. Adjust a bit to make sure there is at least one offensive spell.

BtB under the Wizard Class - spell books (upper right corner page 23 in 4th printing) the class begins with a number of spells per level equal to those able to be cast.
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The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

[Jackal]

By the book, wizards and illusionists start with a number of spells equal to spells per day including any bonus spells. This has always worked for me so I don't have any suggestions on how else it might be done.

Edit: Go0gleplex beat me to it.
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Baron Greymoor
Troll Lord Games
Castles & Crusades Society

[Vetterix]

Read Magic is pretty much a required spell for Wizards and Illusionists as it is needed to decipher spell books and scrolls to acquire new spells. If they do not have an additional 1st level spell slot from an intellect bonus starting out, then they may end up with only one 1st level combat spell. You might consider having Read Magic as a freebe.

As the PHB indicates, Wizard and Illusionists spell books and scrolls are the sought after treasure by those classes as they are the means to learn new spells (outside the starting spells as Jackal posted, and one new spell per level acquired).

It also seems it would be hard to learn even the starting spells or the one acquired per level gained without Read Magic...
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"Remember, there's always something cleverer than yourself."

[Go0gleplex]

Yeah...read magic is a gimmee in my games for that very reason. The -1 level spell.
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The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

[Treebore]

I give them 6 0 level spells and 4 first level spells, of their choice.

I treat "read magic" as needed only for spells written by mages unknown to them, using a magical "secret code" or cipher. So when looking at spell books written by themselves or their teacher, or any other mage "known" to them Read Magic is unneeded.

So to me Read Magic is simply a magical decoder ring. If you already know the code your good to go.

I think this is also supported by the descriptive text of the spell:

"This spell allows the caster to read magical inscriptions. This deciphering does not normally invoke the magic contained in the writing, although it may do so in the case of a cursed scroll. Furthermore, once the caster has read the magical inscription, that writing can be read without recourse to the use of read magic."

-PH, 3rd printing, page 90.
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[gideon_thorne]

I don't. I use a spell points system and let folks use whatever spells they have the points for and they are high enough level to cast.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[Go0gleplex]

[quote="gideon_thorne"]I don't. I use a spell points system and let folks use whatever spells they have the points for and they are high enough level to cast.[/quote]

Some of us just like being pointless though.
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The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

[Jackal]

gideon_thorne wrote:
I don't. I use a spell points system and let folks use whatever spells they have the points for and they are high enough level to cast.

This is my favorite idea as well but I've never found a spell point system that works well enough to keep casters from hogging the spotlight too often.

Even something as simple as converting memorization to on the fly casting (still using spells per day as the limit for each level) makes casters so much more versatile, and allows them to solve too many problems on their own. Actual point systems (like 2e psionic strength points) are worse, then you end up with the everlasting fireball machine.
And sorry for the post.

Edit: Although, over the past hour, I've been toying with an idea I like. Maybe a Crusader submission!
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Baron Greymoor
Troll Lord Games
Castles & Crusades Society

[csperkins1970]

Illusionists and wizards, in my game, know all 0-level spells and 1st level spells equal to the # of 1st level spells that they can cast + their INT bonus.
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[Jason Vey]

I use the starting spells random determination in the first ed AD&D DMG.
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Jason Vey, The Grey Elf
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[serleran]

I make them go to school. If the player cannot recite, verbatim, the text of the spell then they don't get it.
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Serl's Corner

[Go0gleplex]

[quote="serleran"]I make them go to school. If the player cannot recite, verbatim, the text of the spell then they don't get it.[/quote]

Okay...points for harshest master of the arcane...right here.
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The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

[CharlieRock]

Vetterix wrote:
Read Magic is pretty much a required spell for Wizards and Illusionists as it is needed to decipher spell books and scrolls to acquire new spells. If they do not have an additional 1st level spell slot from an intellect bonus starting out, then they may end up with only one 1st level combat spell. You might consider having Read Magic as a freebe.

As the PHB indicates, Wizard and Illusionists spell books and scrolls are the sought after treasure by those classes as they are the means to learn new spells (outside the starting spells as Jackal posted, and one new spell per level acquired).

It also seems it would be hard to learn even the starting spells or the one acquired per level gained without Read Magic...

I dont know where the treasure table was that we rolled under for this to happen; but one time we found a scroll of Read Magic as an item of treasure.
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The Rock says ...

Know your roll!