Noob question RE: the Fourth Crusade

[Stainless]

Greetings all. I'm a complete C&C noob (I don't even own the books yet!), but it looks interesting and nicely produced, so I think I'll be ordering soon. Please forgive my ignorance.

I've groked the Fourth Crusade is an umbrella term for the 3rd printing/updating of the core rule books. What I'm unsure about is;

i) The adventures, supplements, campaign settings are a mix of publications from 1st & 2nd printing of the core rules?

ii) Can the above in i) be used seamlessly with the Fourth Crusade material?

iii) Are there plans to update the above in i) to be Fourth Crusade (i.e., reprinted/formatted/etc.)?

Thnaks in advance.

[gideon_thorne]

Stainless wrote:
Greetings all. I'm a complete C&C noob (I don't even own the books yet!), but it looks interesting and nicely produced, so I think I'll be ordering soon. Please forgive my ignorance.

I've groked the Fourth Crusade is an umbrella term for the 3rd printing/updating of the core rule books. What I'm unsure about is;

i) The adventures, supplements, campaign settings are a mix of publications from 1st & 2nd printing of the core rules?

ii) Can the above in i) be used seamlessly with the Fourth Crusade material?

iii) Are there plans to update the above in i) to be Fourth Crusade (i.e., reprinted/formatted/etc.)?

Thnaks in advance.

Yes to all of the above. Even if #3 is no more than changing the cover format to a given product.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[Stainless]

Thank you sir. What a fast turn around! I wrote the post, went downstairs for a drink, came back and there was an answer! Looks like a high traffic volume forum.

[Omote]

Welcome Stainless. If you buy the current printings of the PHB and M&T, you're good to go with no problems at all. Again, welcome to the Crusade~!

~O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[Jackal]

It's already been answered, but you're good to go with the 4th Crusade books. I mostly just wanted to say welcome!
_________________
Baron Greymoor
Troll Lord Games
Castles & Crusades Society

[Stainless]

Oh no, more questions popped into my head.

If one purchases the pdf versions of a C&C book, will they be freely updated with errata as and when, like the recent Savage Worlds 3rd printing of the Explorer's Edition and Mongoose Publishing do regularly with their poorly proof-read publications?

Considering this digital age, it's not a great deal of work to do, keeps the customers happy and helps to compile a correct version for subsequent reprinting/updating.

Also, can one add comments to the pdf versions of the books and/or turn off layers for ease of printing?

[Breakdaddy]

Welcome, Stainless! Only Steve or Pete (maybe?) can answer your question about the PDF releases, but I'm glad to see another person looking into getting a C&C game off the ground.

[gideon_thorne]

Well, I don't do anything fancy with the PDFs. Far as I know, they are set to be handy to read on a computer screen.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[moriarty777]

Stainless wrote:
Oh no, more questions popped into my head.

If one purchases the pdf versions of a C&C book, will they be freely updated with errata as and when, like the recent Savage Worlds 3rd printing of the Explorer's Edition and Mongoose Publishing do regularly with their poorly proof-read publications?

Considering this digital age, it's not a great deal of work to do, keeps the customers happy and helps to compile a correct version for subsequent reprinting/updating.

Also, can one add comments to the pdf versions of the books and/or turn off layers for ease of printing?

Well, the short answer is no (to your first question).

Lists of errata are freely available though the first couple printings of the PHB have seen the most of these. There were little in the 3rd printing but there were a couple of changes in the latest (and 4th) printing. These changes are not errata but TLG has made a list of those changes available in case you have an older copy of the book (whether it is print or PDF).

I have no idea for the second question -- I've never tried to print anything. You can copy and paste text which was a big plus for me. I also don't know if you can add comments to the file or not.

M
_________________
"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

[Jackal]

Stainless wrote:
Oh no, more questions popped into my head.

If one purchases the pdf versions of a C&C book, will they be freely updated with errata as and when, like the recent Savage Worlds 3rd printing of the Explorer's Edition and Mongoose Publishing do regularly with their poorly proof-read publications?

Considering this digital age, it's not a great deal of work to do, keeps the customers happy and helps to compile a correct version for subsequent reprinting/updating.

Also, can one add comments to the pdf versions of the books and/or turn off layers for ease of printing?

moriarty777 pretty much has you covered here. I also have no idea about turning off layers but I have printed the book and it comes out just fine. The pdf is unsecured so I would imagine most features are enabled.
_________________
Baron Greymoor
Troll Lord Games
Castles & Crusades Society

[Stainless]

Thank you all. It looks like a very friendly community (apart from the cloud around the CKG )

I'm interested in C&C for that old-school feeling (I started roleplaying back in 1978 armed with nothing more than Judge's Guild's Ready Ref Sheets!)

An important component of that old-school approach is a good old dungeon crawl. Of the available adventures, which has the largest dungeon complex?

[Breakdaddy]

Stainless wrote:
Thank you all. It looks like a very friendly community (apart from the cloud around the CKG )

I'm interested in C&C for that old-school feeling (I started roleplaying back in 1978 armed with nothing more than Judge's Guild's Ready Ref Sheets!)

An important component of that old-school approach is a good old dungeon crawl. Of the available adventures, which has the largest dungeon complex?

If you want the best dungeon crawling experience, I would suggest Engineering Dungeons. It allows you to make dungeons very quickly using random tables. You could have a virtually endless dungeon using this product alone.

[narpet]

Hi there Stainless... and welcome.

Since I'm fairly new to C&C myself I thought I would throw in my 6.5 cents. My gaming group of over 20 years recently switched to C&C at my request (about 3 months ago or so)... and we haven't had so much fun in many, many years!

It's really an elegant system... easy to play and yet full of great content. I have purchased almost all of the published modules and we are playing them and having a great time. C&C has become my main gaming addiction... and my group is extremelly happy that we made the switch. I think you'll really enjoy it.

[Troll Lord]

Welcome to the Crusade Stainless and Narpet! I think your questions have been answered by others so no need for me to chime in as much.

Trollzah!

Steve
_________________
The High Lord, Coburg the Undying

He who sits on the elephants back

Castle and Crusade Society
troll@trolllord.com

[Jackal]

Stainless wrote:
Thank you all. It looks like a very friendly community (apart from the cloud around the CKG )

I'm interested in C&C for that old-school feeling (I started roleplaying back in 1978 armed with nothing more than Judge's Guild's Ready Ref Sheets!)

An important component of that old-school approach is a good old dungeon crawl. Of the available adventures, which has the largest dungeon complex?

It's not the most complex dungeon but The Rising Knight is still my favorite TLG dungeon crawl adventure. And, it's free. http://www.trolllord.com/downloads/index.html
_________________
Baron Greymoor
Troll Lord Games
Castles & Crusades Society

[gideon_thorne]

Stainless wrote:
Thank you all. It looks like a very friendly community (apart from the cloud around the CKG )

*chuckles* Wouldn't worry over that, mate. Folks here will spend all day arguing whether rain is wet if you let em. It fades quick enough when the next topic comes along.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[Jackal]

gideon_thorne wrote:
*chuckles* Wouldn't worry over that, mate. Folks here will spend all day arguing whether rain is wet if you let em. It fades quick enough when the next topic comes along.

How many times do I have to tell you; it's wet is rain! Get it right!
_________________
Baron Greymoor
Troll Lord Games
Castles & Crusades Society

[Omote]

I would say that there is no mega-dungeon C&C module yet. However, If I were to suggest something that has the best dungeons thus far, I would go with the Umbrage Saga Box Set. Plenty of dungeons in there, and the box set is massive (6 linked adventures and supplementary material). Though this box set is not generic, it would be pretty easy to use the material with any setting. A few CK twists and tweeks may be needed, but not many (names, places and the like). One of the better adventure box sets put out in the past few years IMO.

~O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[gideon_thorne]

Jackal wrote:
How many times do I have to tell you; it's wet is rain! Get it right!

As right as your dubiously formed sentence?
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[Jackal]

gideon_thorne wrote:
As right as your dubiously formed sentence?

No, far more righter than that! Okay, I'm done killing the thread and the English language.
_________________
Baron Greymoor
Troll Lord Games
Castles & Crusades Society

[dunbruha]

Stainless wrote:
Thank you all. It looks like a very friendly community (apart from the cloud around the CKG )

I'm interested in C&C for that old-school feeling (I started roleplaying back in 1978 armed with nothing more than Judge's Guild's Ready Ref Sheets!)

An important component of that old-school approach is a good old dungeon crawl. Of the available adventures, which has the largest dungeon complex?

The great thing about C&C is that you can use your old JG stuff with minimal (on-the-fly) conversion (that's what I've done). Or you could get some free mega-dungeon goodness: Castle of the Mad Archmage

[Fiffergrund]

Omote wrote:
I would say that there is no mega-dungeon C&C module yet.

I'm working on one. Of course, I've been working on it for a while, and it will never see the light of day unless I get off my ass and finish it, but if it *does* ever see print, it's pretty big.

The best part is that the party won't have to travel from civilization to get to it.
_________________
Sir Fiffergrund, Lord Marshal of the Castle and Crusade Society.

He Who Hides Behind The Elephant's Back

[Jackal]

Fiffergrund wrote:
I'm working on one. Of course, I've been working on it for a while, and it will never see the light of day unless I get off my ass and finish it, but if it *does* ever see print, it's pretty big.

The best part is that the party won't have to travel from civilization to get to it.

Working on a traveling dungeon?
_________________
Baron Greymoor
Troll Lord Games
Castles & Crusades Society

[Fiffergrund]

Jackal wrote:
Working on a traveling dungeon?

No, although that might be an interesting concept. The one I'm working on stays put. That's part of the "problem" with it. It's not exactly in a convenient location for anyone except adventurers.

Another problem I'm having is format. The maps are sprawling. This is great for an organic feel in a home game, not as easy to handle for print purposes. Part of my procrastination is due to the fact that I haven't figured out the best way to handle the mapping for print.
_________________
Sir Fiffergrund, Lord Marshal of the Castle and Crusade Society.

He Who Hides Behind The Elephant's Back

[Omote]

Well, I think C&C needs a mega-dungeon module. And if anybody were to do it, might as well be the Fiff! Hopefully we'll see that sucker one day. Good luck.

~O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[CharlieRock]

Stainless,

Since you are new I'd like to bring this post to your attention. I found it here (or was it the Goodman Games forums). Anyway, it has been redone here in various threads but I'm saving you the looking for it:

Quote:
Hello, my name is Chris Rutkowsky and I did the conversion of the Mysterious Tower from d20 to Castles and Crusades, and wrote an original module for C&C for Goodman Games.

Joe forwarded me an email in which a person wanted a guideline for converting a certain module (Crypt of the Devil Litch) to C&C. I personally don't have this module, however I can give you guys a quick guideline that I used myself to make things for Mysterious Tower work for C&C.

The easiest thing to convert is the monsters. All you need to do is look up the same monster in the C&C Monsters and Treasure book! You can mark the pages in the module and your M&T book with color coded sticky notes so that you always know what page to turn to in a hurry and don't have to bother with making notes.

If the monster you want to convert is not in the Monsters and Treasure Book, I would consult an older edition of D&D-- my personal favorite being the Basic D&D Rules Cyclopedia. If you don't have it you can buy the pdf for 5 dollars at rpgnow.com or buy a used one on ebay.

The monsters presented in the RC are 90% compatable with C&C rules. The only thing that you would need to actively convert is armor class and saving throws. To convert D&DRC armor class to C&C, simply subtract the given AC from 19. Remember that subtracting a negative number is the same thing as addition. So a D&D monster listed as AC 5 would be AC 14 in C&C (19-5= 14). A monster with AC -3 would become AC 22 in C&C (19+3 =22). Saves are easier to convert. If the creature saves as a fighter, thief, dwarf, or halfling it is Physical prime. If it saves as an elf, cleric, or wizard it is mental prime. Use the creatures HD as the bonus to all rolls (including saves, attacks, etc). Simple, eh?

If using 1st or 2nd Edition AD&D as a resource, armor class is also easy to manage. Simply subtract the listed AC from 20. So an AC 5 creature would be AC 15 in C&C and an AC -3 character would be AC 23 in C&C. Saves convert the same as in basic D&D.

If you want to convert DIRECTLY from d20 system, use the same Hit Dice and die type as the creature already has, but get rid of the bonus hit points. So a creature listed as 5d10+15 HD in d20 would convert to 5d10 in C&C. You should also take away any bonuses to the damage dice listed. If the bonus listed is higher than the die, just make the attack use the die type, and double it. So a creature listed as doing d4+5 damage, change it to 2d4. If a creature had d6+3 dmg, just convert it to d6. These changes are because hit points and damage are harder to come by in C&C than they are in d20. If a creature's good saves are FORT or REF, it is Physical prime. If it is WILL the creature is mental prime. If they are all good saves, it is physical and mental prime.

Converting Saves

Older editions of D&D had 5 saving throws. C&C has 6 and they are just about the same, except the C&C saves are directly linked to stats. The old D&D saves were as follows and converts to C&C as presented below:

Paralysis-- Str

Breath Weapon (and area of affect spells like fireball)-- Dex

Poison, Death-- Con

Wands, Staves, Wands (and Illusions)-- INT

Spells (except illusions and area of affect spells like fireball and charm or sleep spells)-- WIS

Enchantment spells (sleep, charm, etc) and fear= CHA

Converting d20 saves is a little trickier and involves a judgement call by the CK converting it. You just have to use some logic as to which converts to what.

FORT-- STR or CON (depending on the effect)

REF-- DEX

WILL--INT, WIS, or CHA (Depending on the source of the spell/effect, CK's call)

Converting DCs to Challenge Levels.

I use a simple formula for this. I assume that DC 15 is the average DC of a check in d20. In C&C, the average difficulty of a task is CL 0. So every 1 the DC is higher than 15 in D20, the CL is 1 higher. So a DC 19 check would convert to a CL 4 check. For every 1 the DC is lower than 15 in D&D, the CL is -1. So a DC 12 check would be CL -3 in C&C. The CL of course is added to the base of 12/18 depending on if the character is prime in the required stat.

Converting Skill Checks

Simply make the skill check into an attribute check for the skill that is normally tied to that attribute. You may want to give certain classes a bonus in this, or even restrict who can try based on class. For instance a Search check would simply convert to an INT check, which anybody can do, but a Survival check to track somebody should be limited to rangers or maybe druids (with a penalty as it is not a class ability for them).

Converting damage from traps--

If the trap is related to a spell, look up the C&C equivilent and adjust the effect accordingly.

If the damage is related to a weapon, look up that weapons damage in C&C and convert it.

If damage is listed as a die with a damage bonus exceeding the die types, add another die to the damage instead. If it has a damage bonus less than the die type, get rid of the bonus damage.

So if a trap is listed as doing 5d6+7 damage, convert it to 6d6 damage for C&C. If it does 5d6+4 damage, it just does 5d6.

Well, that is all that comes to mind for now. Let me know if you think of any other questions about conversion.


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or visit our forums hosted at http://grognardstavern.proboards29.com/ ... d=bagboard

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The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

[gideon_thorne]

Fiffergrund wrote:
I'm working on one. Of course, I've been working on it for a while, and it will never see the light of day unless I get off my ass and finish it, but if it *does* ever see print, it's pretty big.

The best part is that the party won't have to travel from civilization to get to it.

Fiff's not the only one working on one. Only reason I haven't turned mine in, is that my dungeons tend toward the elaborate. Its going to take at least a dozen 17x22 sheets to do what I have in mind up properly.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[Omote]

Ahem. Well Mr. Bradley, it's about time to get finished on that project. I propose a race to see who can get their mega-dungeons published first, PB or Fiff. Ready? Set? GO!

~O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[gideon_thorne]

Omote wrote:
Ahem. Well Mr. Bradley, it's about time to get finished on that project. I propose a race to see who can get their mega-dungeons published first, PB or Fiff. Ready? Set? GO!

~O

Funny thing is, most of it's actually under the LollyGag Inn. The place was a fortress before one of my retired characters took it over.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[Jackal]

Stainless wrote:
Oh no, more questions popped into my head.

If one purchases the pdf versions of a C&C book, will they be freely updated with errata as and when, like the recent Savage Worlds 3rd printing of the Explorer's Edition and Mongoose Publishing do regularly with their poorly proof-read publications?

Considering this digital age, it's not a great deal of work to do, keeps the customers happy and helps to compile a correct version for subsequent reprinting/updating.

Also, can one add comments to the pdf versions of the books and/or turn off layers for ease of printing?

As I just purchased 46 new TLG pdf products I thought I'd comment a bit more now.
Aside from one module with a missing cover (Dogs of War) and a couple of the Crusaders defaulting to page three when the files are opened, the quality of the pdf products are great. Everything is clean, easy to read and formatted well.

I'm still unsure about layers but I did notice that some are secured and some aren't.
_________________
Baron Greymoor
Troll Lord Games
Castles & Crusades Society