EN World: WotC cuts product line

[dutch206]

Blaming the sluggish economy *(and not the fact that WotC SUX)*, Wizards has decided not to renew its Star Wars License from LucasArts.
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[double-c]

I'm kind of glad they did end the Star Wars RPG line, it was starting to run out of source material. As a whole line though I think everything they put out succeeded! I'll be trying to snag as many of the SAGA books as I can before they're gone-gone.

I'm sad to see the mini's game go as a lot of people in Madison, WI enjoyed playing it at Pegasus Games.

[moriarty777]

And they are turing around and doing Gamma World for 4E

M
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[double-c]

moriarty777 wrote:
And they are turing around and doing Gamma World for 4E

Well they make more money with an IP they own vs. one they don't, correct?

[serleran]

Post-Apocalypse is the thing at the moment.
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[concobar]

And we all know the completest people out there will be buying the gammaworld books.

I know I will.
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[double-c]

serleran wrote:
Post-Apocalypse is the thing at the moment.

Vampire stock is down, buy Postapoc!

[Omote]

Is GAMMA WORLD going to be based on 4E?

~O
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Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[concobar]

probably
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[DangerDwarf]

Omote wrote:
Is GAMMA WORLD going to be based on 4E?

~O

From what I've read, yes. Will even have.....

Yup.....

Booster packs of mutant powers.

I'm hoping that's teeth gnashing exageration though.

[Breakdaddy]

Damn I would LOVE to see Shane Hensley's group get the Star Wars RPG license...

[Traveller]

Just to clarify, Gamma World 4E was the single book edition released in the early 1990s, after the 3d Edition and it's ACT table, and before Alternity Gamma World. This upcoming version would be 7th Edition, the 6th Edition being d20.

The best version of the game is still the 2d, though for d20, Omega World is quite good Needless to say, I won't be bothering with 7th Edition.
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[concobar]

I will get it.

But then, i also own every hard bound 4e book released to date. even the dragon magazine compilation. I am up to 16-17 4e books at this point and feel pretty good about it.

I agree that 2nd ed gammaworld was probably the best version but i like 4th gammaworld quite a lot also.
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[DangerDwarf]

I'm a fan of 4e as well, so that aspect of a new Gamma World is cool by me. But, if it is true that they will be adding the CCG element of random booster packs of powers, complete with rares and what have you....

That's a deal breaker for me. I don't really want to see that sort of thing added to RPG's. I know that is just rumored at this point, but yeesh if it is true.

[concobar]

DangerDwarf wrote:
I'm a fan of 4e as well, so that aspect of a new Gamma World is cool by me. But, if it is true that they will be adding the CCG element of random booster packs of powers, complete with rares and what have you....

That's a deal breaker for me. I don't really want to see that sort of thing added to RPG's. I know that is just rumored at this point, but yeesh if it is true.

are you sure they dont mean packs of power cards sorta like what they have done with d&d?
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[DangerDwarf]

Nah, the deal I read the other day stated actual randomized booster packs, complete with rares and what not.

BUT

It also stated it was just rumored at this point. I really hope it is just teeth gnashing exageration.

[double-c]

The way they made is sound was like booster packs from a CCG.

I'm both terrified, and enthralled at the same time. If I want random mutations, give me a full deck and let the players pick randomly form it.

Although, IF they give full decks AS expansion packs to do the above. I could see the investment being justified.

(Damn, I'm starting to sound like a grognard now, what have I become?!)

Damn I'm confused.

[Treebore]

I feel lucky then, with the end of SAGA its clearly in my best interest to just support other RPG companies. Not only the Trolls, but Paizo, Mongoose, Cubicle 7, Goodman, Kenzer, Catalyst, Green Ronin, the Savage Worlds companies, and others.
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[concobar]

Treebore wrote:
I feel lucky then, with the end of SAGA its clearly in my best interest to just support other RPG companies. Not only the Trolls, but Paizo, Mongoose, Cubicle 7, Goodman, Kenzer, Catalyst, Green Ronin, the Savage Worlds companies, and others.

I would do that more if the products were there. I like mongoose for their traveller books but the rest just are not putting out the products i want while wotc D&D4e continues to be top of the market in both production values and support for the line.

I for one hope the random powers booster pack thing is just rumored and not a fact.
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[Treebore]

PErsonally I am glad everyone is so slow, except Paizo. I wish they were slower, makes it easier to pass by my wife when the totals are lower, especially in months I go to Cons.
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[DaveyB]

DangerDwarf wrote:
Nah, the deal I read the other day stated actual randomized booster packs, complete with rares and what not.

BUT

It also stated it was just rumored at this point. I really hope it is just teeth gnashing exageration.

These are meant to add to the existing mutations and technology in the game already. You don't have to buy them if you don't want to. Here's a quote from Insider about D&D Gamma World (note it's called "D&D" Gamma World):

Quote:
D&D Gamma World is a roleplaying game. The cards add a random element that is built into the game play, but it is in no way a collectible trading card game. It uses dice and all of the basic D&D RPG rules, with the added element of random cards to reflect the random mutations and technological discoveries that have always been a part of the Gamma World mythology.

[Omote]

All I got to say is boooooooooooooo!!! I can't believe WOTC is going to build into the game a collectible aspect. That just screams RAKE OVER COALS. Yeah, yeah you don't need those Mutation/Power cards to play the game but when your friends have them and they have mo awesomer p0werz than you do, that SO blows.

I'm not a fan of the 4E system, but thought for a few days I might give it a try as the system might feel better with Gamma World Well, now, F-that, and F-WOTC forever. What utter rubbish. Typical. I have no idea why I even thought of looking into Gamma World 4E.

~O
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[Treebore]

Omote wrote:
All I got to say is boooooooooooooo!!! I can't believe WOTC is going to build into the game a collectible aspect. That just screams RAKE OVER COALS. Yeah, yeah you don't need those Mutation/Power cards to play the game but when your friends have them and they have mo awesomer p0werz than you do, that SO blows.

I'm not a fan of the 4E system, but thought for a few days I might give it a try as the system might feel better with Gamma World Well, now, F-that, and F-WOTC forever. What utter rubbish. Typical. I have no idea why I even thought of looking into Gamma World 4E.

~O

"...but it is in no way a collectible trading card game."

Depends on how true that statement is. Maybe the "random" they are referring to is drawing from the deck?

I'll be keeping an eye on this. 4E failed to grab me as a D&D system, maybe it can grab me as a GW system. However, if those are "collectible cards", despite all claims to the contrary, I won't be buying into this either.
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[DaveyB]

Omote wrote:
All I got to say is boooooooooooooo!!! I can't believe WOTC is going to build into the game a collectible aspect. That just screams RAKE OVER COALS. Yeah, yeah you don't need those Mutation/Power cards to play the game but when your friends have them and they have mo awesomer p0werz than you do, that SO blows.

I'm not a fan of the 4E system, but thought for a few days I might give it a try as the system might feel better with Gamma World Well, now, F-that, and F-WOTC forever. What utter rubbish. Typical. I have no idea why I even thought of looking into Gamma World 4E.

~O

It's not really unexpected given WotC's penchant for producing accessories out the whazoo and no different than Fantasy Flight's treatment of Warhammer 3rd edition. There's nothing stopping one from just running the core set and that's it. At least with Gamma World, the cards aren't required to get all of the classes like Warhammer. They seem to be no different than a splat book from any other RPG that adds more options to what you already have. Just my $0.02. I'll check it out and then decide. It could turn out to be cool...

[DaveyB]

Treebore wrote:
"...but it is in no way a collectible trading card game."

Depends on how true that statement is. Maybe the "random" they are referring to is drawing from the deck?

I'll be keeping an eye on this. 4E failed to grab me as a D&D system, maybe it can grab me as a GW system. However, if those are "collectible cards", despite all claims to the contrary, I won't be buying into this either.

That's the way it reads to me and the way I've always taken it to be. You have a bunch of random cards with mutations and technology. During the game you get a random mutation, so you draw randomly from whatever cards you have.

Later on you find a piece of technology and draw a random tech card from the tech cards. While neat in theory, it remains to be seen how it will work out in actual play. Having never played Gamma World before, I'll remain cautiously optimistic. I don't "hate" 4e, but I'm not enamored over it either.

[Omote]

I guess it's not unexpected. But you can bet your bottom dollar that the Mutation/Powers on the cards will not additionally be in the books. I GUARENTEE that the powers (common, uncommons, rares, ultra-rares, foils, etc) will be only available in the booster packs. It wouldnt be a problem if these powers were also just listed in the books, but no, they had to go ahead and make a decision to spur revenue by turning the game collectible. Not unexpected, and not a bad business decision given the parent corporation. However, the biggest sector of fans who would purchase this type of product is probably even smaller now because of the collectible aspect of it.

Face it, with the economy, and the lackluster results of 4E, the corporation is grasping at straws to make popular the slowly dying brand names of D&D, Gamma World, etc. It's all about the numbers, that much is understood and not unexpected. But WOTC better start to understand that these business moves are slowly killing (not expanding as they would like you believe) the franchise capital potential of D&D and it's ancillary products.

~O
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[anglefish]

Treebore wrote:
I'll be keeping an eye on this. 4E failed to grab me as a D&D system, maybe it can grab me as a GW system. However, if those are "collectible cards", despite all claims to the contrary, I won't be buying into this either.

This is my sentiment. While it seems over the top for me that a fantasy thief has a "cone effect" for throwing knives that he doesn't even have in his inventory, I can handle a mutant spitting out spines.
IMHO, Hasbro's main aim with it's RPG line is it to find a way to turn it into a successful board game/toy hybrid. They can't wait for the day that the only labor involved with D&D is the hourly wage paid to factory worker in China and a salary paid to a marketeer in American (trust me, corporate American finds both types of employees highly expendable and replaceable.)

Make copies, put it on the shelf, and forget about it.

This, of course, runs counter to what a lot of CnC fans look for in a game.

[Omote]

anglefish wrote:
IMHO, Hasbro's main aim with it's RPG line is it to find a way to turn it into a successful board game/toy hybrid. They can't wait for the day that the only labor involved with D&D is the hourly wage paid to factory worker in China and a salary paid to a marketeer in American

Anglefish is spot on, and this will never be how this industry operates. Long gone are the days when a game like this will sell itself. And they will never learn that it takes professionalism and creators who are in touch with the fans. The fans in this hobby aren't looking for a gimmick and they are smart enough to know when they are being taken advantage of.

This, my friends is indeed the writing on the wall. WOTC is on the downhill of this industry. Let's hope they make some good decisions and can rebound with some solid products. If not, I fear that this hobby is indeed going to go into a long, hard slump.

~O
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[Orpheus]

anglefish wrote:
This is my sentiment. While it seems over the top for me that a fantasy thief has a "cone effect" for throwing knives that he doesn't even have in his inventory, I can handle a mutant spitting out spines.
IMHO, Hasbro's main aim with it's RPG line is it to find a way to turn it into a successful board game/toy hybrid. They can't wait for the day that the only labor involved with D&D is the hourly wage paid to factory worker in China and a salary paid to a marketeer in American (trust me, corporate American finds both types of employees highly expendable and replaceable.)

Make copies, put it on the shelf, and forget about it.

This, of course, runs counter to what a lot of CnC fans look for in a game.

I'm not so certain that that's entirely the case. WotC is pushing Dark Sun later this year, and they've actually dropped the Player's Guide/Campaign Guide model that they used for Forgotten Realms and Eberron, which cuts down on the number of books needed to get started in a given setting.

You guys have also failed to focus on the new "Basic Box" and Essentials line that WotC unveiled at DDXP which focuses much more on providing players and DM's with things like die-cut tokens and everything-that-you-need-in-one-box products. These products don't push any type of collectible angle. In fact, the GW mutant powers seems to be the ONLY thing mentioned which could even possibly have a collectible aspect. Also, they mentioned that the whole point of the new GW is to be more of a short campaign-type game with a lot going on the whole time. Hence the daily mutation effects.

If they really just wanted to produce collectible toys and rake in the cash then they would've kept up the collectible miniatures lines, if they're really just "blaming" the economy for their decision to not renew the Star Wars license. I suspect that the license was pretty dang hefty, and the margin on the products really wasn't making it worth their while in light of the cost.

And how do you guys know that 4E isn't doing well? Any evidence that anyone has is purely antecdotal. I don't give a rip what game anyone plays, but there is this bizzare hate around here for WotC to fail at anything just because they touched D&D with their sullied hands.

As for the bit about overseas sweatshops, all of the five 4E books which I own were printed in the U.S.A. If they wanted to seriously cut costs and produce their books overseas, they could've done this already.

4E isn't everyone's cup of tea, but there's amazing support for the game and I agree with concobar that everything I've seen thus far has been top notch. I'm happy chilling with my core books and the Eberron stuff that I've bought, and I plan on using more DCC's than I do official WotC mods, but I think that they're really heading in the right direction.

I also think that they've found a very cool marketing strategy lately with things like the Robot Chicken writers and Penny Arcade guys playing recorded sessions. It definitely lends a geek chic vibe to D&D and they might pull in more players from the Adult Swim crowd with that tactic.

[CharlieRock]

D&D is always the big "hook" when it comes to bringing in new players to RPGs (at least, the tabletop variety). The new Gamma World just shows that D&D players soon branch out into other realms of gaming and WotC wants a piece of the action.
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