Monk Abilities

Zulliger · Post by **Zulliger** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:26 pm

Hello Honorable C&C fans! It's me again!

I've tried to find in this forum someone who tells something about the 4th edition Monks. No success.

So I'm here to ask... The monk abilities changed from the 3rd to the 4th editions? What is new?

TIA!

Dagger · Post by **Dagger** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:39 pm

I don't have my copy on me, but I recall that the names of their abilities were changed to be more generic and less Eastern. I also recall that their unarmored AC was bumped up a bit. I seem to remember the unarmed attack damage went up a bit as well, but I can't remember for sure.
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Dagger · Post by **Dagger** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:05 am

I checked my book tonight and indeed the AC is bumped up by 1 and the progression is a little different, but ends at 15 just like the older printings. The unarmed attack gets better at lower levels but likewise ends up at 1d10 just like the older printings. I also noticed that 4th printing Monks have a faster base movement at 1st and 2nd level now.
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Zulliger · Post by **Zulliger** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:13 pm

Thank you, Dagger!

I was wishing for a major change in the monk class 'cause I never really liked these monk powers.

Well, thanks again D.

anglefish · Post by **anglefish** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:39 pm

Out of curiosity, what powers are you looking for?

Arazmus · Post by **Arazmus** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:27 pm

I've sort of mashed the heavily eastern style kung-fu monk into a western style monastic heirarchy...it's not the best. I've never liked the monk, he seems out of place unless you're running an "Oriental" adventure campaign. Does anyone else feel this way? (The assassin almost gets this tag too but in a middle eastern type campaign)
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Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:37 am

Araz

I agree, a couple of us have made home brew western styled hand to hand guys to varying degrees of success.
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Zulliger · Post by **Zulliger** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:02 pm

anglefish wrote:
Out of curiosity, what powers are you looking for?

well, this is a great question, indeed!

I've never thought deeply about monk powers/skill/abilities... I guess that's why I was hopeful about new ones.

So, I can't anwser you question right now, but as soon as I thought... I wrote here!

Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:49 pm

[quote="Arazmus"]I've sort of mashed the heavily eastern style kung-fu monk into a western style monastic heirarchy...it's not the best. I've never liked the monk, he seems out of place unless you're running an "Oriental" adventure campaign. Does anyone else feel this way? (The assassin almost gets this tag too but in a middle eastern type campaign)[/quote]

yeah...it is a bit oddly placed. However, I've never really had to deal with it. I've had only one player in 30 years even want to play a monk.
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nwelte1 · Post by **nwelte1** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:44 pm

Hmm I must be odd. I love the monk class as a concept. Never really got to play one except for two sessions. The resistances they gain seem invaluable.

I used one against some PCs in my Sunday games and stun locked and nearly killed the cleric.

They are not a class you want to go toe to toe with the biggest baddie in the room, but I think they fill the support tank role pretty well.

I am contemplating a monk/assassin or monk/caster in Treebore's next campaign.

The eastern flavor of the monk does not bother me.

Taranthyll · Post by **Taranthyll** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:52 pm

Arazmus wrote:
I've never liked the monk, he seems out of place unless you're running an "Oriental" adventure campaign.

I wouldn't say that they are only appropriate to oriental campaigns, but they certainly don't fit into every type of game.

My campaigns are usually pretty heavily influenced by R. E. Howard style sword and sorcery and monks fit into this type of campaign very nicely. I never really 'got' monks when I was a kid - to me a monk was Friar Tuck. It wasn't until I discovered Conan and read about the adepts of Khitai who fought without weapons and could kill with a touch that I really felt comfortable with what D&D monks were all about.

If you're running a Tolkien-esque type of campaign then I don't think monks would fit in well, but for pulp style sword and sorcery they are right at home.
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Kaiser_Kris · Post by **Kaiser_Kris** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:05 am

Working on the modified character classes a little bit for my homebrew setting, I simply sat and thought about why Asian martial arts developed. And that was due to a largely unarmed peasantry needing to protect themselves from often-cruel and greedy armed nobles. Now, the Western monasteries were more or less sitting ducks for Vikings and such. But it's not hard to imagine monasteries realizing that their role as preserves of knowledge and civilization might trump their pacifist desires.

So, the stronger and faster of the brothers and sisters begin to develop special unarmed fighting techniques. A few of these monks, had they joined a more worldy order, might have had the potential to be powerful clerics. That ability to tap into divine power, however, is redirected, and instead of being manifested in clerical 'spells', is channelled through the bodies of the monks themselves.

Eventually, knowledge of the physical techniques of these fighting monks begins to spread outside of the land, at the same time that these unique warriors are occasionally being sent outside of monasteries, to hone their abilities and to act as defenders of the poor and weak. These monks are held in great regard and, indeed, something approaching awe ...

When you are being punched by a monk, you are being punched by the fists of a GOD.

Lucifer_Draconus · Post by **Lucifer_Draconus** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:29 pm

I never really had issue with monks as I was a big Oriental Adventures & kung Fu movie fan, but also could see the argument against them as not fitting a staight European influenced setting. I liked how they were worked into the Greyhawk setting especially the Scarlet Brotherhood.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:13 pm

Lucifer_Draconus wrote:
I I liked how they were worked into the Greyhawk setting especially the Scarlet Brotherhood.

Ditto and QFT.

~O
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Piperdog · Post by **Piperdog** » Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:27 pm

It really depends on how the setting is done. I typically run a very western european styel game, and the oriental flavor doesn't fit in with my concept. However, you can mold a fantasy setting around whatever cultures you want to, and agree that Greyhawk fit them in well. A lot of people who know me think it's odd that I don't like them in my campaign, because I'm a martial arts instructor, and assume that makes me an automatic monk fan. On the other hand, I created the Pankratiast as a monk replacement, focusing on the ancient Greek and Roman martial arts, and placed it's birthplace in Tagea (Airhde setting). It fits the world much better in my opinion. I'm not a monk hater though, because back in the day, we played a whole Oriental Adventures campaign (or two or three) and the monks were awesome. The way you could choose proficiency slots in special manuevers were really a precursor to the feats of 3x. You could have monks of various styles duking it out like a bad Chines Kung Fu Flick. Good times.
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Taranthyll · Post by **Taranthyll** » Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:51 pm

Piperdog wrote:
On the other hand, I created the Pankratiast as a monk replacement, focusing on the ancient Greek and Roman martial arts

Interestingly, depictions of pugilists on ancient Greek urns show stances remarkably similar to zenkutsu dachi and koksu dachi of karate. Some have speculated that martial arts may have spread to Asia from Greece, though I think it more likely that similar fighting styles developed independently around the world.
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Piperdog · Post by **Piperdog** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:46 pm

The more I study the history of combative arts, the more I believe many systems developed indepently of eachother. Still, one culture affects another. I remember as a young man when I first started training in Arnis (Kali) from the Filipino systems, and while much of the technique is indiginous, you can see a boatload of fencing knowledge woven in there from past Spanish invasions. As far as eastern martial arts, I was surprised to see some historians believe asian martial arts may have been influenced by the ancient greek martial arts, predominately from the warriors within Alexander the Greats army. Either way, man has been kicking the crap out of eachother since the beginning of time, so it only stands to reason that warlike or conflicted cultures would devise some pretty sophisticated unarmed systems.
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Taranthyll · Post by **Taranthyll** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:38 am

Piperdog wrote:
Either way, man has been kicking the crap out of eachother since the beginning of time, so it only stands to reason that warlike or conflicted cultures would devise some pretty sophisticated unarmed systems.

One thing that I've noticed when observing martial arts styles other than my own is that all traditional styles utilize essentially the same body mechanics to deliver the techniques - actual techniques vary from style to style, but how they are implemented doesn't.

I published a paper a couple of years ago on predators of the Cambrian period (~485-540 million years ago), and one of the predatory animals of that time, Yohoia, made attacks similar to those of mantis shrimp, namely an elbow strike that is identical to age empi uchi (rising elbow strike) of karate, and a spearing strike with the digits that is identical to nukite. Since the Cambrian marks the diversification of multi-cellular life, you could say the entire animal kingdom has been kicking the crap out of each other since the beginning of time. And the methods they use are strikingly similar (sorry about the pun), because they have evolved the most efficient ways of attacking their prey.

It is no surprise then, that so many martial arts styles have similarities - in part, perhaps, because of cross-influence, but also because there is only one "right" way to deliver a given technique with maximum efficiency and many different styles have, over time, all evolved in a parallel fashion. They appear to have been arising independently for the last half billion years.

Sorry, I realize this is drifting pretty far from the subject of the thread, but I tend to get carried away when speculating about martial arts history, and even more carried away when talking about my research.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:51 am

So, who wants to play a game with ninja dinosaurs?
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:19 pm

serleran wrote:
So, who wants to play a game with ninja dinosaurs?

Ooooh, oooooh, ooooh. me, me ME!

~O
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Taranthyll · Post by **Taranthyll** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:25 pm

serleran wrote:
So, who wants to play a game with ninja dinosaurs?

Who doesn't? The only thing cooler than dinosaurs is ninja dinosaurs.
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