I have had my AD&D 3E printed!

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:34 am

Yes, the one by C. Perkins.

Rigon had the PH done in preparation for us using it for our next Campaign starting week after next, so it inspired me to go get mine done at Staples, spiral bound.

I am surprisingly pleased with the results, they used a nice, heavy, semi-glossy paper, its spiral bound, and has those thickish clear plastic sheets as protection on the front and back. To have both books done cost me just short of $38.

Once again it also proves I much prefer reading print rather than PDF!
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:43 am

I've seen this 3e mentioned a few few times here recently. Any links to help an intrigued, lost dorf out?

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:00 am

DangerDwarf wrote:
I've seen this 3e mentioned a few few times here recently. Any links to help an intrigued, lost dorf out?

They are on this web page:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/dnd3e/cnc.htm

The AD&D players handbook and Unearthed Arcana are his heavily house ruled blending of 1E, 2E, C&C, and what looks to be pieces of 3E too.

We will be staying much closer to C&C for our game, but we will be using a lot of stuff out of these.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:47 am

DD, it's really good stuff. I downloaded it a while back and it's got some great stuff in it. I think I like the Unearthed Arcana best (it was one of my favorites back in the day...) for the race adaptations and new classes. I think you'll be pleased.
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Secret Skeleton · Post by **Secret Skeleton** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:58 am

I love the pic in there of the female fighter with THO through chainmail. Man, I forgot how awesome that is.

I am going to print and use this. This is just what I have been looking for.

csperkins1970 · Post by **csperkins1970** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:40 pm

Secret Skeleton wrote:
I love the pic in there of the female fighter with THO through chainmail. Man, I forgot how awesome that is.

I am going to print and use this. This is just what I have been looking for.

That chick is Morgan Ironwolf... known for her endowment by all young, male players of Basic D&D back in the early 80s.
I'm glad you guys are getting some use out of my houserules. I've finally gotten a campaign up-and-running with these rules and, so far, my players are having fun. They still have a 3.X mindset but I'm trying to bring them around to see things in a simpler, more elegant, light.

Treebore,

What stuff are you cherry-picking for use in your game? Just wondering what bits people like the most.

My least favorite bit in my rules is the Bard class. I'll eventually clean it up a bit, particularly its Fascination-related abilities.
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Steerpike · Post by **Steerpike** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:48 pm

This is great stuff. I am going to go through this is more detail for use with my campaign. Nice work!
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Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:07 pm

csperkins1970 wrote:
[Treebore,

What stuff are you cherry-picking for use in your game? Just wondering what bits people like the most.

If you check out the Tuesday Wilderlands thread in the Online section, you'll see some of the discussions so far. But mainly we are using the races, classes and skills from the AD&D3 and the clerical domains and classes (I think) from the AD&D3 UA book.

R-
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:13 pm

Cool beans. Definitely gonna check it out.

nightstorm · Post by **nightstorm** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:27 pm

I too printed up both books and then turned around and bought both C&C books. I like the homemade book, but many places become redudent and changes were made that I had to question. For instant why give the paladins rangers spells? One of the things I like most about C&C is that not everyone is a spell caster. why call the rogue a thief?? There's old school and then there's being too old school. I too like the unearthed arcana better than the players. The one thing I like about the players is that it contains more spells.
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csperkins1970 · Post by **csperkins1970** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:32 pm

Hey nightstorm,

I was going for AD&D and 3.X compatibility with the rules, which is why I gave spells back to the paladin and ranger (D&D has always given spells to each class).

The class names are totally a throw-back to AD&D... though that's a cosmetic difference that is easily ignored.

Still, I'm glad that my books helped lead you to C&C!
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nightstorm · Post by **nightstorm** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:38 pm

certianly did. I think where your books are strongest is putting together alot of old stuff like the spells and gods and viewpoints. I also like having a necromancer and the races addition in UA.
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Nightstorm: So tell me something about your elf.

Zippo: He's an elf. He lives in the woods.

Nightstorm: Did you hear that Gary? "His elf lives in the woods"

csperkins1970 · Post by **csperkins1970** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:57 pm

That was definitely part of my reason for putting the books together. I wanted to collect what I found to be the best of D&D and Dragon Magazine through the years and somehow lump it together.

The reason I added a lot of AD&D elements to C&C is that my friends and I were using C&C to play classic TSR adventures and, as such, wanted to make C&C more AD&D compatible.

Unearthed Arcana still isn't finished... though it's completely usable in its current form. I still plan on adding the following:

The Winged Folk (from the pages of Dragon): a new PC race

Wild Magic

Firearms (from the pages of Dragon): based on Ed Greenwood's article

Other stuff:

As I play my game I'm trying to see what works well and what needs tweaking. So far, I've added "bennies" to my game. These are rewards for players who do cool things in game. A character can use a benny to re-roll a single die roll OR get a +3 to a die roll (though they must announce this before they roll the die). Another use would allow a dying character to stabilize.

That's why I'm holding off on finishing UA; so I have a better chance to see what makes my game better without over-complicating it.
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Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:21 pm

csperkins1970 wrote:
(D&D has always given spells to each class).

Just to pick nits here, AD&D gave spells to each class. OD&D (the white box for the uninitiated) didn't. Paladins in OD&D were a subclass of fighter, using the same chart. Rangers never appeared in OD&D or its supplements, but appeared Strategic Review #2. Illusionists initially appeared in Strategic Review #4, with an addendum article with additional spells appearing in Dragon #1. Bards appeared in the last issue of Strategic Review.

All of these classes underwent revision for AD&D. Paladins earned limited clerical spell ability. Rangers had their combined druidic/wizard spellcasting changed over to a straight druidic spell ability (similar to the Paladin in that regard). Illusionists underwent the fewest changes, and the Bard class was now much more annoying to be since you had to be a Fighter and a Thief before you could become a bard. The original bard class started you out as a bard at first level and its spellcasting ability was far less limited than what exists now.
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csperkins1970 · Post by **csperkins1970** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:33 pm

Good point Traveller.

I never played or owned OD&D, so I didn't base my design on it at all. I should have said AD&D, 2nd edition and 3rd edition.

Based on your post, I should look at my Dragon Magazine archive pdfs to see what was done with the bard... it sounds like I could mine OD&D for a redesign of the class.
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Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:51 am

I've been slowly working on the Gray Book's supplementary volume, and I've done up the bard in there. I did change one thing in that I made the musical instruments a bard can get random, in keeping with the AD&D DMG's random magic item tables. The supplement is supposed to have everything in it that was in the OD&D supplements that I DIDN'T use, such as weapon speeds, hit locations, artifacts, psionics and deities for example, as well as some things from Best of Dragon I, such as bards and the article "The Nature of Planes".

PM me with your email address and I'll send you a PDF of the pages on the bard. It probably would need a little bit of reworking to fit into Castles & Crusades, but honestly that bard was better than the Fighter/Thief/Bard combo that is in the AD&D PHB.
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GameOgre · Post by **GameOgre** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:36 pm

I thought places like Staples ect.. would not copy copyrighted material? If I thought I could use them I would have done so long ago! Please clue me in!
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Steerpike · Post by **Steerpike** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:40 pm

Most of those places won't print copyrighted material, as far as I know.

Game rules per se are not protected by copyright, but artwork, verbatim text, etc. are.
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csperkins1970 · Post by **csperkins1970** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:41 pm

I haven't had a problem with Staples or Lulu... and I've printed lots of copies!
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Steerpike · Post by **Steerpike** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:42 pm

csperkins1970 wrote:
I haven't had a problem with Staples or Lulu... and I've printed lots of copies!

Heh.

Well I think their "official" policy is that they won't. In practice, I imagine it varies widely.
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csperkins1970 · Post by **csperkins1970** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:47 pm

Steerpike wrote:
Heh.

Well I think their "official" policy is that they won't. In practice, I imagine it varies widely.

I guess I've been lucky.
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nightstorm · Post by **nightstorm** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:00 pm

While on the subject of pdfs could you email me on how

t o import pics. From one pdf to another. At the time being I only have ps7. Thanks
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Nightstorm: So tell me something about your elf.

Zippo: He's an elf. He lives in the woods.

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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:25 pm

Staples can print Copyrighted materials, as long as your using it for "personal use only", and not getting it printed off to sell. For example, when you buy a PDF you have the legal right to run off one printing of it, arguably up to 9 of them. When you buy a print copy you are entitled to having one "back up copy" of it, again, arguably up to 9 of them, depending.

If they have a problem with printing up something you want done tell them to give you the "release form", and that you'll be happy to sign it to attest your doing it "for personal use only".

Which you better be, because your creating a paper trail with which you can be hung if your not.
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Steerpike · Post by **Steerpike** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:30 pm

Treebore wrote:
Staples can print Copyrighted materials, as long as your using it for "personal use only", and not getting it printed off to sell. For example, when you buy a PDF you have the legal right to run off one printing of it, arguably up to 9 of them. When you buy a print copy you are entitled to having one "back up copy" of it, again, arguably up to 9 of them, depending.

If they have a problem with printing up something you want done tell them to give you the "release form", and that you'll be happy to sign it to attest your doing it "for personal use only".

Which you better be, because your creating a paper trail with which you can be hung if your not.

I remember, in grad school, Kinkos refusing to print off a bunch of journal articles for me for use in a class. Had to go do it myself elsewhere.

But yeah, so long as you aren't distributing them I suppose they'd be more inclined to do it. Though a copyright violation doesn't require a sale, and if they're reproducing it for you they could end up in the crosshairs at some point.
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:32 pm

nightstorm wrote:
While on the subject of pdfs could you email me on how

t o import pics. From one pdf to another. At the time being I only have ps7. Thanks

If you have acrobat pro then you can save the page as a JPG, then in your photo software crop down the photo you want and import it to the new PDF from that. GIMP or Photoshop both work equally well for this (and GIMP will open PDF native I THINK). If youre on linux you dont even need Acrobat Pro, there is a command line function that will convert pdfs to jpg or jpg to pdf, I just cant remember the command ATM.

EDIT:
http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-conv ... -an-image/

Steerpike · Post by **Steerpike** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:33 pm

You can also download GIMP, which is free and will actually open PDF files. Then you can resave any or all of the PDF as a JPG or any other image format you like.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:07 pm

Steerpike wrote:
Though a copyright violation doesn't require a sale, and if they're reproducing it for you they could end up in the crosshairs at some point.

As long as your truly doing it for personal use, you have nothing to worry about. So if your doing it for yourself, to keep in your possession, your doing nothing wrong, assuming you have bought a legal copy of it, in print or PDF.

In this case of AD&D3, I figure since I own the original books that have the original artwork, and Perkins clearly gives credit to those people, plus it is for personal use, I don't think anyone is going to get upset.

If anyone is really worried about it use GIMP 2 to crop out the artwork and just print the text.
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Lucifer_Draconus · Post by **Lucifer_Draconus** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:00 pm

Interesting..hmmm I think I'll check this out (AD&D3 thingy). Might use bits for my future C&C games , if I like it.
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Piperdog · Post by **Piperdog** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:36 pm

There is a lot of cool stuff in there. Thanks for pointing me to it, Tree. I particularly like the take on the fighter class, and may spin that into my C&C game.
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