I was looking at some of the children's rpgs out there, namely for my 7 year old daughter, and discovered that many authors are confused on or simply disagree on what makes up a children's rpg.
Certainly, the themes can be for children, like the animal characters in Harvesters or Mouseguard for example, but what about the rules set? Do the authors understand that children, and I mean young children, do not look at a C&C book and say, "Wow this is a simple system!".
In my opinion, a game aimed at children should be picked up, read by, and understood by...children. The assumption seems to be that the game will be read by, run by, and instructed by adults (parents and such) which is great. If it requires an adult for the kids to play, i wouldn't call it a children's rpg.(thats just me).
Take Harvesters for example. Great game. But is it really for kids to pick up, read through and get it? The simplicity of C&C is really subjective, especially when you have new gamers (adults included) and just navigating a character sheet is tough business.
I remember when I was maybe eleven or so, and bought the TSR Marvel Super Heroes box set. I actually learned the system by reading it, but it was presented in a child friendly way. Big font. The text was Spidey and the Thing explaining what the game was and how to play, with plenty of illustrations. They used language that was very simple and straightforward (thus Reed Richards was excused from teaching the kids...lol) so I got it.
Any game aimed at children, in my book, needs to 1) be very simple
2) Then simplify it and 3) be simple
Three to four stats, with names like Smarts, Muscle, Body, Spirit, etc. and intead of 3-18 attributes that translate to a modifier, just use the dang modifier. Movement rates, variable damage with appropriate polyhedral dice.....just muddies the waters in their wee brains.
If you want to invest in a child THEMED rpg, in which there are some very good ones (Harvester for example), and run it for your kids like I do, then there is no need to get them a very kiddified simple game. But if you are thinking of putting a book in the hands of a child and expect them to get it on there own, you can't look at it from the point of view of an adult, or an experienced gamer. You have to place yourself in their little shoes and imagine what this crazy stuff looks like on a character sheet, all the many dice, and so on. Those who know me know that I am a cop right now, but I am close to graduating with my degree in elementary education. Many of my classes simply reenforce what I have already learned as a parent. The games are simply too difficult for the 6-9, maybe even 10-11 year old bracket (without intense adult guidance and instruction in how to play).
I have actually started working on my own system for my 7 year old daughter as an experiment. I am contemplating using one die for the whole shabang. We'll see how it goes.
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When in doubt as to who is in charge on the battlefield, listen to the man with the bloodiest sword.
What Makes a Children's RPG?
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Go0gleplex
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If you're intending the game to be ran for and by children, then you have it in a nutshell. Simple and straight forward. It needs to be written like the Berenstain Bears or the like.
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.
Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-
High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.
Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-
High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society
"Rolling dice and killing characters since September 1976."
"Author of Wardogs! and Contributor to Iron Stars and Starmada-Admiralty ed."
"Certified crazy since 2009."
"Author of Wardogs! and Contributor to Iron Stars and Starmada-Admiralty ed."
"Certified crazy since 2009."
Right on, G.
I am looking at doing it a little like a picture book. I will have text spoken by visible characters, and so on. The style will be like the transition books, or as my daughter calls them, Chapter Books, which are broken into chapters, but are still illustration intensive.
The mechanics are what I am mulling over right now. A simple damage track perhaps, similar to True20, or wound system, like SW. Straight up Hit Points are always an option too. I lik a one die concept also.
_________________
When in doubt as to who is in charge on the battlefield, listen to the man with the bloodiest sword.
I am looking at doing it a little like a picture book. I will have text spoken by visible characters, and so on. The style will be like the transition books, or as my daughter calls them, Chapter Books, which are broken into chapters, but are still illustration intensive.
The mechanics are what I am mulling over right now. A simple damage track perhaps, similar to True20, or wound system, like SW. Straight up Hit Points are always an option too. I lik a one die concept also.
_________________
When in doubt as to who is in charge on the battlefield, listen to the man with the bloodiest sword.
Here's what works for my 5 year old:
I let her pick what kind of character she wants to be. I don't have a list, so she just picks something like a fairy, a princess, or a character from a movie.
Then I ask her to come up with 3 special powers for her character. She'll come up with powers like being able to turn invisible, make people fall asleep, turn people into frogs, etc.
Then I come up with some basic scenario like one of her friends is trapped by an ogre or something like that.
I use a simple mechanic where she rolls a d20 and if she rolls over 10 then whatever she tried worked. I use this when she uses her powers against someone or tries something difficult.
I don't do any sort of damage dice or anything. If she hits a monster with her wand, she automatically dispatches it. I give her character 6 hit points and every hit from a monster does 1 damage.
This works great for a 5 year old. I'm sure you could crank up the complexity for older kids.
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Rusty
I let her pick what kind of character she wants to be. I don't have a list, so she just picks something like a fairy, a princess, or a character from a movie.
Then I ask her to come up with 3 special powers for her character. She'll come up with powers like being able to turn invisible, make people fall asleep, turn people into frogs, etc.
Then I come up with some basic scenario like one of her friends is trapped by an ogre or something like that.
I use a simple mechanic where she rolls a d20 and if she rolls over 10 then whatever she tried worked. I use this when she uses her powers against someone or tries something difficult.
I don't do any sort of damage dice or anything. If she hits a monster with her wand, she automatically dispatches it. I give her character 6 hit points and every hit from a monster does 1 damage.
This works great for a 5 year old. I'm sure you could crank up the complexity for older kids.
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Rusty
I use Kids, Castles & Caves. It is simple and designed around d6. It doesn't even use attributes, rather the following:
Level, Life, Defense, Attack& Damage, and Play Points (XPs)
It's got good graphics for a kid to pick out which hero they want to play, big font to read, though I think it is more for the adult to teach their kids rather than just kids reading on their own.
_________________
R is among the most menacing of sounds. Thats why they call it murder, not muckduck. DWIGHT SHRUTE, The Office
Level, Life, Defense, Attack& Damage, and Play Points (XPs)
It's got good graphics for a kid to pick out which hero they want to play, big font to read, though I think it is more for the adult to teach their kids rather than just kids reading on their own.
_________________
R is among the most menacing of sounds. Thats why they call it murder, not muckduck. DWIGHT SHRUTE, The Office
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Lord Dynel
- Maukling
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Fortunately, I have my wife who is willing to play with my 7 year old son. That hasn't happened, yet, and at first my wife rolled her eyes when I told her I had to have a sit down conversation with her about our son's roleplaying future. She saw that it was important to me, though, so she was more than willing to help. So, in the very near future I'll be GM'ing my son for the very first time.
I want to do something current, but there's only a few games that I might use. C&C is one of those, since it's rather easy. But I keep going back to Basic D&D, because it's even easier. I think, to start, it might be a little daunting to have the race/class paradigm and the SIEGE engine may be a bit difficult to grasp. But I like the "roll d20, add modifiers, and compare against a TN" type of system C&C is. No skills make it a worthy candidate with no feats and no skills. Basic D&D is good (I like the race classes for it very simple rules...), but some the systems might be a little difficult to grasp (especially the system is contradictory to many of the systems in print today).
I wish C&C had put out a Basic Set.
Yeah, yeah, someone's thinking, "They already did" or "they don't need to." I think they do.
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules
I want to do something current, but there's only a few games that I might use. C&C is one of those, since it's rather easy. But I keep going back to Basic D&D, because it's even easier. I think, to start, it might be a little daunting to have the race/class paradigm and the SIEGE engine may be a bit difficult to grasp. But I like the "roll d20, add modifiers, and compare against a TN" type of system C&C is. No skills make it a worthy candidate with no feats and no skills. Basic D&D is good (I like the race classes for it very simple rules...), but some the systems might be a little difficult to grasp (especially the system is contradictory to many of the systems in print today).
I wish C&C had put out a Basic Set.
Yeah, yeah, someone's thinking, "They already did" or "they don't need to." I think they do.
_________________
LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules
Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.
LD's C&C creations - CL Checker, a witch class, the half-ogre, skills, and 0-level rules
Troll Lord wrote:Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.
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Go0gleplex
- Greater Lore Drake
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In the spirit of keeping it simple keep it to a 10 point damage track. This avoids too much graphic information with a wound system and simplifies a HP system without undue detailing.
I'd also advocate a single die mechanic as well for simplicities sake.
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.
Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-
High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society
I'd also advocate a single die mechanic as well for simplicities sake.
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.
Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-
High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society
"Rolling dice and killing characters since September 1976."
"Author of Wardogs! and Contributor to Iron Stars and Starmada-Admiralty ed."
"Certified crazy since 2009."
"Author of Wardogs! and Contributor to Iron Stars and Starmada-Admiralty ed."
"Certified crazy since 2009."
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Secret Skeleton
- Ulthal
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Christina Stiles
- Ulthal
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Let me pimp a game I worked on a few years back, Faery's Tale:
http://www.greenronin.com/store/product/grr3201.html
We tried to keep the rules simple, so that children could run it, though we certainly had in mind that parents would likely initially run it; later the kid could take up the GMing responsiblities.
Anyway, the daughter of Pinnacle's Clint Black ran it at ConCarolinas 2009 for a group of adults. I'm told it went well; I wish I had seen it, but I was otherwise engaged at the con. I'm not sure of her age, but I believe it's around 10-12.
_________________
Christina Stiles
The Misfit Troll Word Wrangler
www.christinastiles.com
www.misfit-studios.com
www.trolllord.com
http://www.greenronin.com/store/product/grr3201.html
We tried to keep the rules simple, so that children could run it, though we certainly had in mind that parents would likely initially run it; later the kid could take up the GMing responsiblities.
Anyway, the daughter of Pinnacle's Clint Black ran it at ConCarolinas 2009 for a group of adults. I'm told it went well; I wish I had seen it, but I was otherwise engaged at the con. I'm not sure of her age, but I believe it's around 10-12.
_________________
Christina Stiles
The Misfit Troll Word Wrangler
www.christinastiles.com
www.misfit-studios.com
www.trolllord.com
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Go0gleplex
- Greater Lore Drake
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That looks pretty neat there Christina. Heck, my mom would enjoy that just for the faerie artwork.
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.
Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-
High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.
Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-
High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society
"Rolling dice and killing characters since September 1976."
"Author of Wardogs! and Contributor to Iron Stars and Starmada-Admiralty ed."
"Certified crazy since 2009."
"Author of Wardogs! and Contributor to Iron Stars and Starmada-Admiralty ed."
"Certified crazy since 2009."
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Christina Stiles
- Ulthal
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:00 am
Go0gleplex wrote:
That looks pretty neat there Christina. Heck, my mom would enjoy that just for the faerie artwork.
Lol! It is good artwork. Also, when I was at Origins one year with my friend Spike Y Jones, the game's editor, he ended up playing in a modern-day, adult game of Faery's Tale. From what he told me about it afterwards, it sounded something like a World of Darkness scenario run with FT's rules system. He said it went over very well; so others seemed to like the simplicity of the rules, too!
So, it's made for kids....but not just for kids, necessarily. YMMV.
_________________
Christina Stiles
The Misfit Troll Word Wrangler
www.christinastiles.com
www.misfit-studios.com
www.trolllord.com
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Coleston the Cavalier
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I have three boys 6, 8 & 10. They use the 4th ed. D&D core books and pick out a character. They tell me what their characters want to do and iI tell them what the monsters are doing/attacking. Both monsters and pc's roll a d20 to hit. I usually make the pc's AC 12 and the monster's AC at 5, 8, 10, 12 or 15 - depending upon how dangerous they are. I also just tell my boys how much damage a one of their hits does or how much a monster's hit does.
It is quick and gets us through at least an hour of gaming.
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John Adams
It is quick and gets us through at least an hour of gaming.
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John Adams
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Christina Stiles
- Ulthal
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Christina Stiles wrote:
Anyway, the daughter of Pinnacle's Clint Black ran it at ConCarolinas 2009 for a group of adults. I'm told it went well; I wish I had seen it, but I was otherwise engaged at the con. I'm not sure of her age, but I believe it's around 10-12.
Just found out that the little girl who ran the game was 9 last year.
_________________
Christina Stiles
The Misfit Troll Word Wrangler
www.christinastiles.com
www.misfit-studios.com
www.trolllord.com
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Secret Skeleton
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a kid's role playing game is a game simple enough that an adult can explain it to a child.
I mean lets get real here.
Where is the children's bicycle? it's the bicycle that an adult helps a child learn. its the encouragement and attention the child gets from the adult while riding the bike that makes bike riding something they want to do.
once they get older they realize the bike is a vehicle for exploring rather than a "Hey Mommy Look at me!" toy.
RPGs are much the same. Hold their hand thru it first, then when they are ready, they will discover the vast potential of rpgs...or they won't.
How many 5 year olds sit and read a book no matter how simplified.
Then compare how many kids sit on your lap and want YOU to read the book to them.
Childrens roleplaying games happen on the playground when they play cops and robbers, or whatever they play nowadays. they already know how to roleplay. simply encorage that with a simplified version of whatver you normally play. But you need to do it with them.
I have never seen a kid fail to grasp the simple aspects of a role playing game. They love it and can't get enough.
But I don't see those same kids sitting up at night pouring thru books trying to compare the benefits of fighting vs spell casting.
Any one of these games can be presented in a way that a kid can enjoy.
But I don't think your ever going to be able to just hand them a book and wish them luck on their next campaign.
They need to be engaged and played with.
As for a game that does not require adults to explain.
Once again I ask to get real...
I was in elementary school. My friend had the player's handbook for AD&D. THATS IT!
We did not need any stinkiing adults to explain to us how to use imagination and run away away with fantastic stories...we were kids for pete's sake! This was AD&D...the very same rules that folks now think needs to be re-correlated so an adult can understand it.
The game is not the book, nor the rules folks...the game is the wild imaginings that are already going on in a childs mind.
Buy Harvesters and play with your kids.
If you just want to hand a kid something and ignore it from there may I suggest video games.
Theres an example. How many video games can a child play? How many rulebooks of the video game has the child sat down and read?
They are amazing and intelligent. Just kind a simple game, and introduce them to role playing. What will surprise you is when they teach you something.
_________________
'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim
'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell
I mean lets get real here.
Where is the children's bicycle? it's the bicycle that an adult helps a child learn. its the encouragement and attention the child gets from the adult while riding the bike that makes bike riding something they want to do.
once they get older they realize the bike is a vehicle for exploring rather than a "Hey Mommy Look at me!" toy.
RPGs are much the same. Hold their hand thru it first, then when they are ready, they will discover the vast potential of rpgs...or they won't.
How many 5 year olds sit and read a book no matter how simplified.
Then compare how many kids sit on your lap and want YOU to read the book to them.
Childrens roleplaying games happen on the playground when they play cops and robbers, or whatever they play nowadays. they already know how to roleplay. simply encorage that with a simplified version of whatver you normally play. But you need to do it with them.
I have never seen a kid fail to grasp the simple aspects of a role playing game. They love it and can't get enough.
But I don't see those same kids sitting up at night pouring thru books trying to compare the benefits of fighting vs spell casting.
Any one of these games can be presented in a way that a kid can enjoy.
But I don't think your ever going to be able to just hand them a book and wish them luck on their next campaign.
They need to be engaged and played with.
As for a game that does not require adults to explain.
Once again I ask to get real...
I was in elementary school. My friend had the player's handbook for AD&D. THATS IT!
We did not need any stinkiing adults to explain to us how to use imagination and run away away with fantastic stories...we were kids for pete's sake! This was AD&D...the very same rules that folks now think needs to be re-correlated so an adult can understand it.
The game is not the book, nor the rules folks...the game is the wild imaginings that are already going on in a childs mind.
Buy Harvesters and play with your kids.
If you just want to hand a kid something and ignore it from there may I suggest video games.
Theres an example. How many video games can a child play? How many rulebooks of the video game has the child sat down and read?
They are amazing and intelligent. Just kind a simple game, and introduce them to role playing. What will surprise you is when they teach you something.
_________________
'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim
'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell