C&C Middle Earth

bighara · Post by **bighara** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:18 pm

I know from the DF boards that rabindranath72 was using Mentzer D&D for his game, but I was wondering if his C&C notes had ever been compiled in one place, possibly for download?

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:24 pm

Just PM him. I think he has them all together.

...........................................Omote

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rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:51 am

Sure, just PM me and I will send you the file! Note though, that it is not complete (at least, not as I would like).

Cheers,

Antonio

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:54 am

Ooops, just saw that you sent me the PM
Thank you for your interest!

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:00 pm

You know, I just picked up a book the other day that I had never read before. The book is called THE TOLKIEN BESTIARY, c1979. This book is absolutely fantastic with a ton of great information and nearly every page fully illustrated.

While the book is more then just a catelogue of beasts from the LOTR books, there is a lot of history of the world of Middle-Earth, plus a damn fine map of the "old" Middle-Earth.

While I have the feeling that some liberties were taken with certain creatures and histories, this book is one of the better LOTR subject books that I've ever read.

Middle-Earth buffs pick this one up if you can.
............................................Omote

FPQ
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Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:13 pm

I've seen the "newer" versions of this & wasn't that impressed, but if the 79 version is as good as you say it is going onto the want need list.

Omote thanks, but I'm not sure my wife will like the addition to the never ending book want list!
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:46 pm

I didn't know there were multiple versions of this book. The c1979 version is a boog, horkin' book of about 240 pages or so. The cover is tan/yellow with an abstract looking beastie on it.

Some of the artwork is clearly influenced by the 70's drug craze... , but there are some cool pieces in it too.

Can't go wrong with 1/2 Price books
............................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:11 pm

Must find it! In Italy these books were next to impossible to find. I hope to be more lucky here in UK.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:03 am

Is it by David Day? If so, I know a place to get it for $4.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:57 pm

serleran wrote:
Is it by David Day? If so, I know a place to get it for $4.

Yes!
..........................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Turanil · Post by **Turanil** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:19 pm

rabindranath72 wrote:
Trolls

Common trolls: Ogre (C&C M&T p.63), but if exposed to sunlight, it turns to stone.

Etten: Ettin (C&C M&T p.34), but with 4HD; if exposed to sunlight, it turns to stone.

Olog-hai: Ogre (C&C M&T p.63), but with 5HD. If exposed to sunlight, they suffer -1 penalty to hit, AC and damage, unless the will of the Dark Lord holds sway over them, in which case they do not suffer any penalty.

Those trolls look really meak and weak... Why reduce the Ettin's hit-die for example ? At least, the trolls featured in the LotR movies don't fit with but 4 or 5 HD; I would see these with 10 HD minimum.

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:40 pm

Well, I did not go much for the feeling of the movie at all. The idea of the campaign, also, is to have the PCs top out at 10-12 level, so a 10HD Troll, as a little more than a "grunt-level" adversary, seems a bit too much on the powerful side.

I also used as a guideline OD&D (the version with Hobbit and Balrogs), for which Troll was a synonym of Ogre.

Ettens are just a particular breed of Troll, not the two-headed giantkin. So, I adopted more-or-less the same stats.

Cheers,

Antonio

Zudrak · Post by **Zudrak** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:58 pm

Between this thread, the one linked to K&K by Finarvyn, and the DF posts, I am finding it difficult resisting the urge to dive in and start an ME campaign when we next game. I believe reading "The Children of Hurin" has awoken my love of ME to a new level.
I'll be keeping my eye on this thread, for sure.

Antonio, I am PM-ing you my email address. Thanks in advance!

Happy gaming,

Zudrak
_________________
AD&D, Amish Dungeons & Dragons.

"Galstaff, ye are in a cornfield, when a moustachioed man approaches. What say ye?"

"I shun him."

-----

"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."

-- E. Gary Gygax

Zudrak · Post by **Zudrak** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:07 pm

Forgot to add in my last post: Has anyone thought of using a hit point or wound system akin to Star Wars' d20 or other games? I cannot recall how the non-D&D games I've played in the past handle wounds and healing.

I've played Top Secret, Gamma World, Star Frontiers, Star Wars (d6 and d20), Twilight 2000, and a little MERP -- amongst others. I was thinking if one of these games handles hp "better" (for lack of a more appropriate word at the moment) than C&C or A/D&D would in a world where clerics and druids are scarce or nonexistent (CK's whim, I suppose, though I lean towards the former stance). I know SW d20 has wound and vitality points, but unfortunately, I forget how the other systems I mention work for health.
Maybe LA's method could work?

Sorry for posing more questions than answers, but this is one area I would do differently than C&C -- in addition to the spellcasting. I might use the "Elements of Magic" I bought from EN World for that. Yes, it is point-based, but the idea that a caster has a repertoire based on one or more elements sounds quite Middle-earthy to me.
_________________
AD&D, Amish Dungeons & Dragons.

"Galstaff, ye are in a cornfield, when a moustachioed man approaches. What say ye?"

"I shun him."

-----

"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."

-- E. Gary Gygax

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:14 pm

If I were to use HP, in such a setting, I would go the Gamma World method... all characters get Xd6, where X is their Constitution score. After this, it depends on what edition you're talking about, but its either pay XP to get HP (usually 1d6 + Con modifier) or 1d6/level (unless you're playing 4e, where Enforcers get 1d6+Con modifier.) This gives the PCs a high number of HP to start, but they it slowly balances in the long run, meaning they can take on bigger challenges at lower levels (if they're being used; not all GW games have levels.) It also keeps them alive when there is not a lot of healing readily available.

There was a thread somewhere, I think in General, where we discussed alternative wound systems... I know I posted my view of it. It was in the thread on Shadowrun... as I recall. Let me see if I can find it.

[edit]

Found it:

serleran wrote:
I've an idea on how to use wounds and HP simultaneously... but it may not work too well, in the simplicity department.

When the attack is rolled, the result is compared to the needed to hit. If the result is more than 6, a mortal wound is inflicted; at 3+ to 5 the wound is serious, and at > 2 but success then a scratch. Mortal wounds cause the defender to make a save or die, outright; if the character survives, they lose 1/2 total HP. Serious wounds cause the loss of 1/4 HP, and scratches cause the loss of 1/6th (or a set value, based on weapon, whichever is lesser) HP is predetermined on Constitution score, and rarely increases.

Example, Joe Bob with the 18 Con gets 18 HP, and his attacker Wilbur Ray has a 12 Con (12 HP). Joe's AC is 14, and Wilbur's is 16. They are knife-fighting. Joe attacks and gets a total of AC 20, which is 4 more than the 16 needed. This is a serious wound (a stab to the stomach, or a slash on the wrist.) Wilbur goes from 12 HP to 9. He hits back with a scratch (a slice to the face), and this would normally be 3 HP (1/6th Joe's HP), but knifes can only inflict 1.. so Joe drops to 17 left. Joe attacks and misses, but Wilbur whips out an uzi and rolls a natural 20.. this is a mortal wound, and Joe fails his save, dying.

I dunno... maybe too complex.

serleran wrote:
I should clarify this:

"This is a serious wound (a stab to the stomach, or a slash on the wrist.) Wilbur goes from 12 HP to 9. He hits back with a scratch (a slice to the face), and this would normally be 3 HP (1/6th Joe's HP), but knifes can only inflict 1.. so Joe drops to 17 left."

The weapon will deal the lowest possible, unless the wound is not a scratch; so, basically, minimum on scratches only. This is to reflect that a knife can kill outright... but if its just a scratch, it won't do anywhere near as much as a serious wound would have.

Obviously, for a fantasy game, there'd be some changes...

Zudrak · Post by **Zudrak** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:22 pm

serleran wrote:
If I were to use HP, in such a setting, I would go the Gamma World method... all characters get Xd6, where X is their Constitution score. After this, it depends on what edition you're talking about, but its either pay XP to get HP (usually 1d6 + Con modifier) or 1d6/level (unless you're playing 4e, where Enforcers get 1d6+Con modifier.) This gives the PCs a high number of HP to start, but they it slowly balances in the long run, meaning they can take on bigger challenges at lower levels (if they're being used; not all GW games have levels.) It also keeps them alive when there is not a lot of healing readily available.

There was a thread somewhere, I think in General, where we discussed alternative wound systems... I know I posted my view of it. It was in the thread on Shadowrun... as I recall. Let me see if I can find it.

[edit]

Found it:

Obviously, for a fantasy game, there'd be some changes...

I have a new nick' for you, Serl: "The RPG Machine".

You have ideas for everything. They should put you on a plane to Arkansas and just have someone listen to and save to a file all of your RPG ideas for future releases. Seriously.

Anyhoo, I like those ideas. As this thread is pure ruminating for me and not something I can even think about doing anytime soon (running a ME game), it is definitely food for thought if/when I do get around to CK-ing a campaign in Tolkien's world.
_________________
AD&D, Amish Dungeons & Dragons.

"Galstaff, ye are in a cornfield, when a moustachioed man approaches. What say ye?"

"I shun him."

-----

"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."

-- E. Gary Gygax

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:44 pm

Heh, thanks Zudrak. I just try to help. Some ideas I might have are useful, and others not so much... but, I figure the more ideas that are available, the more likely someone might be able to do whatever it was they wanted. Oh, and while I'm here, I'd like to see that file, too, if I can.

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:33 am

Hello guys,

again, thanks for your interest! I expect adequate and constructive criticism
Zudrak, sorry for the delay, the document is under way.

serleran, if you PM you email address I can send it to you, too.

Cheers,

Antonio

Zudrak · Post by **Zudrak** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 pm

rabindranath72 wrote:
Hello guys,

again, thanks for your interest! I expect adequate and constructive criticism
Zudrak, sorry for the delay, the document is under way.

serleran, if you PM you email address I can send it to you, too.

Cheers,

Antonio

No fear, Antonio, I haven't been able to check my AOL email in a while. I should get to it tonight. Thanks a lot!

Happy gaming,

Zudrak
_________________
AD&D, Amish Dungeons & Dragons.

"Galstaff, ye are in a cornfield, when a moustachioed man approaches. What say ye?"

"I shun him."

-----

"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."

-- E. Gary Gygax

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Tue May 01, 2007 6:49 pm

I just posted my write up for the Rohirrim as the "C&C Eorlingas AKA Rohirrim" thread.

Sorry it has taken so long to get out.
_________________
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

Knight Errant & Humble C&C Society Contributor
C&C Society

Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Wed May 02, 2007 5:32 pm

Whoa, hold on here. You have a document of this stuff now? I've been studying like mad for my finals, but in the meantime I've been kickin' it in Middle-Earth via the new Lord of the Rings Online. Now I'm cravin' some tabletop Tolkien action. mgrant19@students.kennesaw.edu

Holla playa.

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Wed May 02, 2007 6:37 pm

Sorry, no document out side of hand written notes & cut and pastes from various Tolkien sites.

Most of my game stuff is still in storage but I found some of my old notes that somehow didnt get boxed with everything else. They are OLD notes of mostly Tolkien liked the Anglo-Saxons so mix that with historic culture of Avar, Norman, Charlemagne to get the correct feel. Boy, I wasted Lots of time in high school and my first years in the Air Force..

This is all way pre C&C so Im reading the notes, doing net searches for specific info I couldnt remember how many riders were in a full eored- and flipping through Tolkien books & the C&C PHB. When I have a good idea, Ill compare it to other conversions on the site here to dial in my idea better. Boy there are some smart guys here with great ideas so it helps to use flavor things on their well built skeletons!-

My next should be for the Rangers & Dunedian but it will be a few weeks as all next week Ill be in Florida doing some jump training.
_________________
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

Knight Errant & Humble C&C Society Contributor
C&C Society

Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Wed May 02, 2007 11:17 pm

Sorry Lurker, but I was referring to a document which Antonio referenced in an earlier post.

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Thu May 03, 2007 10:11 am

Rogo
_________________
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

Knight Errant & Humble C&C Society Contributor
C&C Society

eljeffe418 · Post by **eljeffe418** » Wed May 09, 2007 10:59 pm

Now this is not necessary, however if you are serious about doing a ME campaign but are strapped for maps, you could look up LotrO maps for such places as Bree, Rivendell, etc.

At this point, it is distinctly possible to create a full source book for your own consumption solely using the internet as a source, combining wikipedia articles, examples of maps etc from LotrO, etc.

zomben · Post by **zomben** » Wed May 16, 2007 10:00 pm

Hey, has anyone compiled all these notes into one cohesive document yet? It'd be great to have it all in one place...

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Thu May 17, 2007 10:39 am

Zomben

I've a lot of notes & ideas but life keeps getting in the way of putting it all together. I'll keep posting here as I finish.
_________________
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

Knight Errant & Humble C&C Society Contributor
C&C Society

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Fri May 25, 2007 10:24 am

Posted my write up on the dunedian & rangers yesterday -was running late so didn't bump here- Hope you all enjoy

Quote:
At this point, it is distinctly possible to create a full source book for your own consumption solely using the internet as a source, combining wikipedia articles, examples of maps etc from LotrO, etc.

I'll have to give LOTRO a look (it's firewalled here at my work computer)

As to wikipedia that is where I've started all my surch for "historic facts" and timeline info. There is ALOT of info there but unless you are really into ME it can be alot to dig through
_________________
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

Knight Errant & Humble C&C Society Contributor
C&C Society

Dyne · Post by **Dyne** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:06 pm

I'm new to C&C, but I'm thinking about running a LotR-style game. What you guys have created so far looks very cool, nice work.

daddystabz · Post by **daddystabz** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:45 pm

I want the doc for this too please!
jbaldridge@columbus.rr.com

Troll Lord Games

C&C Middle Earth

Re: Some Middle-earth creatures