Harvesters Questions and Forthcoming Review

Drew · Post by **Drew** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:56 pm

I'm planning to run Harvesters for my wife and two of my sons in a few weeks before writing a review for RPGNow.com. I'll be sure to post something here when I finish the review, but it won't be for at least three weeks as my oldest son is out of town for a bit.

Right now, I'm making a few minor tweaks and house rules, mostly for flavor. I rather like the suggestions others have made for more spells that are less D&D and more animal-themed. As I get time, I plan to create some of these sorts of things for my own use.

My question for you concerns mounts. My 7 year old son is interested in playing a River Otter Knight. One of the knight's primary abilities is his horsemanship. The thing is, I just don't care for the idea of using horses in the game (even the primitive versions as presented).

Does anyone have an idea for animals that I could substitute? Dogs, perhaps? The problem is trying to imagine beasts of burden in a setting where the characters are all beasts. I've already decided that the playable races aren't meant to be perfectly scaled to their real world size. When other animals, such as bears, are mentioned, I assume the author means anthropomorphic versions, perhaps ogre sized, rather than the giant, dragon-like horrors that bears would be compared to a mouse.

What I need is an animal or type of animals that can stand in as the dumb beasts of the world. Lizards? Insects? Giant caterpillars? What do you all think?

Drew · Post by **Drew** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:01 am

I've been reading other threads that touch on a similar topic: http://www.freeyabb.com/trolllordgames/ ... llordgames

The original author doesn't seem to imagine any non-sentient creatures in his game. Hmm...I really think it needs some. Perhaps insects, as suggested in some of the other threads could serve this purpose...although bees have been established in the game as intelligent, as have ants to a lesser extent.

zarathustra · Post by **zarathustra** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:12 am

If it is for a high fantasy, child oriented game like this why not just have griffons, unicorns or pegasi? They are not "real" animals thus can simply be presented as their fantasy forms, sidestepping the question of anthropomorphism.

Or you might have to invent a creature?

Might lizards and reptiles work? Or have they been given intelligence too.

AGNKim · Post by **AGNKim** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:42 am

Sheppard dogs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm29QHaR ... re=related
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Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:16 pm

I didn't say there weren't any, just very few - seeing as it is an anthropormorphic game. You can use any of the mythical creatures. I was thinking of possibly a domesticated strain of hogs as steeds vs wild boars (which is an entirely different matter). I also have planned a species of giant beetles which are used as steeds. As was mentioned in the book (by Steve, I believe), you can use the race of mini-horses (I can't recall the name at the moment).

Giant lizards would work as well. Go crazy! It's you game to change as you see fit.

There will be more in the next adventure that addresses some of these matters. So, stay tuned!
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:22 am

Epihippus, John.

I don't know what to make of using animals as mouns in an animals-as-heroes or even an animals-as-people game. I've never delved into the antrhopomorphic realm before this, so I have no experience. It just seems...odd...that some are beasts, some are heroes, and some are pack animals. My experience is limited to Mouse Guard, where there are mice, and then everything else. I guess I should start reading some Redwall.
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Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:51 am

Lord Dynel wrote:
Epihippus, John.

I don't know what to make of using animals as mouns in an animals-as-heroes or even an animals-as-people game. I've never delved into the antrhopomorphic realm before this, so I have no experience. It just seems...odd...that some are beasts, some are heroes, and some are pack animals. My experience is limited to Mouse Guard, where there are mice, and then everything else. I guess I should start reading some Redwall.

Thanks, LD! Had a brain-fart for a moment! )

You've hit it right on the head why I don't have any mounts in the game so far; but, that doesn't mean that one can't put one in there if they wish. I'm all for people doing what they want with it. It just adds to the fun!
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kwheatonca · Post by **kwheatonca** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:58 pm

It is likely better to keep it open ended for both character size and the question of mounts just to allow the CK to choose what they want.

Where the terminology becomes confused is in the class descriptions which are cut and pasted from C&C. The Ranger for example mentions vermin, giants, fey and humanoids! I think some general classification or guidelines of animals/monsters is in order (it is confusing for the target audience of children and requires a lot of world-building for the CK, if the CK isn't an adult). Giants should be things like bears and wolves. The others I'm not sure.

What is wierd is that some carnivores are included (the hawk & snake for example). What do these creratures eat to stay alive, when nearly all rodents and birds are antrhopomorphic? It would be a pretty dark game if you played all the player races as the main food source for carnivores.

Personally, i am going to start running a game in Wheathollow with a redwall type of feel to it. Whether mounts are included will depend if my daughter chooses a knight or not. Pre-historic animals is an interesting way of going, fits a more medieval feel and can be explained by these animals being less evolved. But bettles work well for the same reasons.

As an aside are there going to be more descriptions of creatures in the upcoming module or crusader such as the weazel?

Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:40 pm

kwheatonca wrote:
It is likely better to keep it open ended for both character size and the question of mounts just to allow the CK to choose what they want.

Where the terminology becomes confused is in the class descriptions which are cut and pasted from C&C. The Ranger for example mentions vermin, giants, fey and humanoids! I think some general classification or guidelines of animals/monsters is in order (it is confusing for the target audience of children and requires a lot of world-building for the CK, if the CK isn't an adult). Giants should be things like bears and wolves. The others I'm not sure.

What is wierd is that some carnivores are included (the hawk & snake for example). What do these creratures eat to stay alive, when nearly all rodents and birds are antrhopomorphic? It would be a pretty dark game if you played all the player races as the main food source for carnivores.

Personally, i am going to start running a game in Wheathollow with a redwall type of feel to it. Whether mounts are included will depend if my daughter chooses a knight or not. Pre-historic animals is an interesting way of going, fits a more medieval feel and can be explained by these animals being less evolved. But bettles work well for the same reasons.

As an aside are there going to be more descriptions of creatures in the upcoming module or crusader such as the weazel?

Well, my view of this world is largely taken from a Redwallian point of view. That is, although birds can talk, doesn't mean that they don't eat meat. They typically will have a limited vocabularly when communicating with the common critter, but quite fluent in their own. Hawks, owls, eagles, and even crows, will eat meat when they can get it. Rats, weasels, stoats, and alot of other carnivores will obviously will eat meat.

Even though badgers are meat-eaters, they're not goint to go over to their neighbor's house and eat him. Although, in Redwall, the residents who lived at Redwall Abbey did eat fish. I will typically look at it this way - those who eat meat and not a main PC race is more likely than not going to be evil and will eat meat any time they can get it.

Yes, there was some spill over from regular C&C that got into the rules (i.e. rangers and giant classes). Disregard anything with fey and humanoids, unless you want to add them into your game, of course. Consider anything over the size of a wolf to be a giant. Bears would be in that class. Mountain lion/cougar/puma would be in that class. That is something I will address in the next installment as well.

To answer your last question - yes, there is going to be a whole bunch more of critters in the next installment - such things as oppossums, bobcats, bears, etc. The last time I looked it was about 25-30 creatures, probably more.
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:49 pm

Lord Dynel wrote:
Epihippus, John.

I don't know what to make of using animals as mouns in an animals-as-heroes or even an animals-as-people game. I've never delved into the antrhopomorphic realm before this, so I have no experience. It just seems...odd...that some are beasts, some are heroes, and some are pack animals. My experience is limited to Mouse Guard, where there are mice, and then everything else. I guess I should start reading some Redwall.

Why not though? Humans are animals. We have just evolved to the point of using tools, tech, mounts. Who is to say that in this world certain other animals haven't done the same?

seskis281 · Post by **seskis281** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:54 pm

Somehow have to go here....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr9zoWVSZDI

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Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:50 pm

seskis281 wrote:
Somehow have to go here....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr9zoWVSZDI

I'll have to check that out when I get home - as they say, "Can't get there from here!"
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Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:54 pm

Breakdaddy wrote:
Why not though? Humans are animals. We have just evolved to the point of using tools, tech, mounts. Who is to say that in this world certain other animals haven't done the same?

It is fantasy after all!! You can make it as complex or as simple as you want.

I seem to recall Sir Didymus (a fox?) riding a dog in the movie Labyrinth. I come from Gary's school of thought - do what you want, wing it and have fun!
UPDATE: According to Muppet Wiki, Sir Didymus was a fox terrier, also a dog. See, it can be done.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:17 am

Yeah, I am familiar with the dog from Labyrinth. And BD, you make a good point. I guess it's my own neurosis that has a sticking point with this. Nothing major, though.
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Drew · Post by **Drew** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:35 pm

As promised, I've posted my review on RPGNow.com.

Check it out if you'd like:
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_reviews_i ... s_id=81918

My kids had a great time playing it and are eager to play again. There were lots of fun points for me as well. My 10 year old son really grabbed onto the plot and successfully followed the clues. They missed a bunch of the outlying encounters and headed right for the bad guys' lair. That's ok, though, because it left plenty of adventure for later. I also enjoyed my 7 year old son's justification for his character, the River Otter Knight's name: Sir Otter. I tried to explain to him that naming an Otter "Otter" was silly, a bit like naming a dwarf "Mr. Dwarf." His argument was "Well, Dad, it's my character and that's what I want to name him." I couldn't argue with that.

I thought that the boys really grabbed on to the concepts of their animals. The River Otter got to swim and do things in the water. The Badger Cleric was downright excited to find the wolverine amulet. He's pumped to find the evil wolverine behind all of this. Great stuff.

There were a few moments of confusion caused by the disconnect between sentient and regular animals. When the crows fly off in the flavor text describing the farmhouse, the boys were pretty convinced that they had to battle evil crows. Also, the 7 year-old thought that they were following rats so that they could eat them. It took me a bit to make him understand that the rats they were following were not tiny, real world rats but anthropomorphic enemies. "Think of them like goblins. You wouldn't eat goblins." The confusion came from an earlier scene where he captured a few fish for dinner. It started to make him think of animals as "animals".

We had a great time and Harvesters is one of the neater games I've gotten in a while.

Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:50 pm

Drew wrote:
As promised, I've posted my review on RPGNow.com.

Check it out if you'd like:
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_reviews_i ... s_id=81918

My kids had a great time playing it and are eager to play again.

Greetings, Andrew!

Thanks for the review! I'm glad the kids enjoyed it!! I really enjoy reading about how others use and see the game. It was a lot of fun to write!

I've got a lot more stuff in the works. Hopefully, as soon as I get the artwork from Mr. Holloway, I'll be sending the write-up for the areas listed on the "World of Wheat Hollow" map for the next Crusader. There will be some new monsters and plenty to work with until the next adventure comes along - with the Trolls schedule, I have no idea when that will be! The titled is tentively called, Wild Goose Chase or Black Tim's Prize. It too will have many more animals detailed, along with new magic items and spells. Plenty of new places to explore!! I think the otters will like this one quite a bit.
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Be sure to check out Jim's artwork for sale:
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