C&C Iron Heroes?

Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:50 pm

Has anyone given C&C the Iron Heroes Treatment?

If so, how?
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:49 pm

Are you talking about a treatment of all of the Iron Heroes rules (abilities, stunts, feat, etc, etc)

~O
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Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:39 pm

Nope, part of the beauty of C&C is not having feats and kills
But I am talking about Iron Heroes treatment of the Classes, especially the Wizard! Haha...

And maybe some kind of action point system or something. I just love the low magic Gothic setting.
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Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:41 pm

I have just been getting into Iron Heroes. But I'm way too a novice to speak of mechanics conversion.

I will say that, setting-wise, it whould be pretty easy to convert. I love the low magic settings, too.
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Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:42 pm

As far as classes go...These would be the only ones allowed...

Fighter

Ranger = Hunter

Rogue

Assassin

Barbarian

Monk

Knight

Paladin

Bard

I would say the above classes are good as it, maybe increase the Base to Hit Mods on the Rogue and Assassin by a step or two?

We would need to make custom classes for the Archer and the Armiger...

The Wizard needs a reworking, I think the simple ting to do would be just to half all of the Wizards spells per day, take away the Wizards bonus spells for a High Intelligence, and on a casting roll of 1, the spell blows up in their face?
_________________
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:27 pm

An attempt at the Archer...

Archer (Dexterity, no alignment restrictions)

When asked "What is Truth?," the Archer picks up his bow, fires an arrow and, without saying a word, lets his mastery of the weapon serve as the gauge of the Archer's progress along the way. By learning the meditative art of the Way of the Bow, the Archer improves his discipline, precision, and spirituality.

ABILITIES:

Bow Mastery: At first level the Archer chooses the Mastery with either Crossbows or regular type draw bows. Once this is chosen , it cannot be changed. At levels 1-6th, the Archer gains +1 to hit and damage, 7-12th level this bonus increases to +2 to hit and damage.

Conceal (Dexterity): As the Ranger Ability

Move Silently (Dexterity): As the Ranger Ability

Archery Dominance: At 4th level, the Archer gains an extra attack with his bow when fighting any creature with 1 HD or less. In order to use this ability, he must direct all attacks at creatures that meet this criteria. The Archer can split these attacks between any creatures with 1HD in his range. He gains an additional attack every four levels after this, so at 8th level the Archer has 2 extra Archery Dominance attacks, at 12th level 3 extra Archer Dominance attacks and so on.

Precision Strike: At 6th level, the Archer learns after years of working with the bow of their choice, where to aim like in between the chinks in the armor, where the vulnerable organs, and other weak spots. The archer gains +2 to hit and +4 to damage. This ability only works on living creatures with come kind of recognizable anatomies. The range of this ability is 60ft.

Rapid Shot: At 10th Level, the Archer gains one additional ranged attack with a bow each combat round. This ability does not stack with Archery Dominance and in a round where both can be used, the Archer must choose one.

Level HD BtH EPP

1 d10 +1 0

2 d10 +1 2,601

3 d10 +2 5,201

4 d10 +2 10,401

5 d10 +3 20,801

6 d10 +3 42,501

7 d10 +4 85,001

8 d10 +4 170,001

9 d10 +5 340,001

10 d10 +5 500,001

11 +4 HP +6 750,001

12 +4 HP +6 1,000,001

13+ +250,000 per level
_________________
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:09 am

Not too shabby, hoss.
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Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:57 am

Thank you very much.

I am very very tempted to give the Archer Improved Precision Shot @ 8th level. Which would allow the ability to be used at maximum range of their bow and allow them to move.

Do you think that would unbalance them?
_________________
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:06 am

Here is my attempt at the Armiger...

While other warriors rely on speed or canny parries to defend themselves, the Armiger trusts in his armor. Armigers create their own protective gear and improve it over time. They can stand before dozens of opponents, confident that their armor will shield them from harm.

ABILITIES:

Armor Mastery: The Armiger has trained for so long in the armor that he fights in, he simply ignores the encumbrance value, all penalties for sleeping in armor, and Max Dex. restrictions.

Tough as Nails: The Armiger can perform feats of endurance that would wear down even the most hardy of Fighters and barbarians. The Armigers starting unmodified Encumbrance is 20.

Wall of Iron: Regardless of what size of shield the Armiger id wielding, the AC bonus from it counts against all opponents that is attacking the Armiger.

Reinforced Defenses: At 4th level, the Armiger has learned to roll with the blows, turn into certain blows, and how to use his armor to the greatest effect possible. He gains Damage Reduction 1/- when wearing armor.

Impervious Cage: At 6th level, while wearing armor, the Armiger retains his Dex. bonus when he is caught flat footed.

Expert Armor Smith: At 7th level, the Armiger has become so skilled at making armor items, he can create expert level items within the same timeline and at the same cost as regular armor items.

Improved Reinforced Defenses: At 9th level, the Armiger Damage Reduction increases to 2/-

Level HD BtH EPP

1 d10 +1 0

2 d10 +1 2,601

3 d10 +2 5,201

4 d10 +2 10,401

5 d10 +3 20,801

6 d10 +4 42,501

7 d10 +5 85,001

8 d10 +6 170,001

9 d10 +7 340,001

10 d10 +8 500,001

11 +4 HP +9 750,001

12 +4 HP +10 1,000,001

13+ + 250,000 per level
_________________
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:09 am

Several C&C inconsistencies there, for rules as written, but ignoring that...

Level 6 ability is far too powerful if it is intended to prevent a sneak attack completely, even from a rogue of 3287432875863219832793286th level. And, the damage reduction is far too high. It should be more like 1 and then 2. 4 means many weapons will deal practically nothing, even when they hit, and several will be absolutely useless unless magical.
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Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:49 am

Thanks Serleran for the feedback.
> I fixed the Damage Reduction to 1/- and then 2/-

> Then the 6th level ability, I just left it as the Armiger retains his Dex bonus when he is flat footed.

As for RAW, a lot of class abilities changes RAW, so I figured no big deal, and they are minor changes.

=======

As for the Archer, what do you think about adding the Improved Precision Shot?
_________________
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:00 am

I think that would be fine... as a 14th+ level ability, but not before. Instead, I might consider something like "Quick Release: the archer is a skilled bowman, able to coax his weapon into performing better than most. This ability allows the archer to make one additional ranged attack with his preferred weapon per round. Other abilities, such as precision shot, cannot be used with this one as they require a dedicated aim and readiness of action." I dunno. C&C does tend to give out some potent abilities, but they are reserved for high level characters. Besides, a character can already move and attack.
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Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:27 am

Now my next biggest problem is the wizard.

How should I scale him down for low magic?
_________________
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:52 am

Lots of options... reduce spell casting capability, impose a spell caster level limit (for example, damage-dealing spells cap out at spell level + Intelligence modifier, so a caster with an 18 Intelligence, with a fireball, could, at best, deal 6d6 damage with it), or invoke some kind of system for spell failure/use.... without knowing what you mean by "low magic" its quite an open door.
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Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:50 am

I really like the idea of the cap out and the Magic failure system.

As for what I am looking for in my search for low magic, not really sure. I am still looking over my Iron Heroes book and figuring out what I want to do.

Let me get back to you when I get a better idea.
_________________
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:01 am

Iron Heroes Magic
Casting System

To cast a spell, the Wizard rolls a Siege Check;

1d20 + Int Mod + Character Level

Vs.

(12 + Spell Level + Empower Spell + Mods)
Failure System

Magic in the world is chaotic and dangerous and very few follow the path of the wizard, but for some, the lust of power is irresistible.
If the Casting Check Fails by 10 or Less: a moderate disaster happens as the spell fights for control from the wizard. Roll a 1d6 (or the CK can choose randomly)

1: Spell effects another random enemy

2: Spell effects the environment

3: The Spell fizzles out and nothing happens, but the spell per day is still lost.

4: Another random spell is cast at the same level

5: A random higher level spell is casts, if the Wizard does not have access to a higher level spell, the spell he was trying to cast his twin cast, one effecting the intended target the other a random enemy and both burn up spells per day

6: The spell racks the Wizards body with pain, causing -2 penalty to all checks for the next round
If the Casting Check Fails by more then 10: a major disaster happens as the spell literally rips its control away from the wizard. Roll a 1d6 (or the CK can choose randomly)

1: The spell effects the Wizard

2: The spell effects one of the Wizards friends

3: The Spell transform into a Ghoul, intent on the blood of the Wizard and friends

4: The Spell fizzles out, draining double the spells per day

5: The Wizard is stunned for the next round

6: The Spell is triple cast, targeting its intended target, another random opponent, and one ally. If the Wizard does not have enough spell levels, then the spell levels are taken from either high or lower levels.
_________________
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:30 am

And to go with the new magic system...

The Arcanist...

Few men and women are willing to pursue magical training. The dangers in studying arcane lore are many, yet the allure of power remains an irresistible sirens call to enough seekers to keep the magical traditions alive.

ABILITIES:

Spells: A Arcanist casts arcane spells. Arcanist can only cast a limited number of spells per day, from each spell level , per day. A Arcanist prepares and castes spells in the same manner as a Wizard does in the C&C PHB.

Iron Veil: Magic is chaotic, unpredictable, and very stubborn to summon forth. All dice variable spells that increase per level max out at spell level + Int modifier.

Empower Spell: The Arcanist can draw upon the chaotic powers of magic and charge his spells for a greater effect. Any spell that has an increasable die effect, the Arcanist can add additional dice, but for each die increased in this way, the challenge class goes up by 1.

Level HD BtH EPP

1 d6 +0 0

2 d6 +1 2,601

3 d6 +1 5,201

4 d6 +1 10,401

5 d6 +2 20,801

6 d6 +2 42,501

7 d6 +2 85,001

8 d6 +3 170,001

9 d6 +3 340,001

10 d6 +3 500,001

11 +2 HP +4 750,001

12 +2 HP +4 1,000,001

13+ + 250,000 per level

Arcanist Spells per Day

Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th

1 4 2

2 4 3

3 4 3 1

4 4 3 2

5 5 4 2 1

6 5 4 3 2

7 5 4 3 2 1

8 5 4 3 3 2

9 5 5 4 3 2 1

10 6 5 4 3 3 2

11 6 5 4 4 3 2 1

12 6 5 4 4 3 3 2

13 6 5 5 4 4 3 2 1

14 6 6 5 4 4 3 3 2

15 6 6 5 5 4 4 3 2 1

16 7 6 5 5 4 4 3 3 2

17 7 6 5 5 5 4 4 3 2 1

18 7 6 6 5 5 4 4 3 3 2

19 7 6 6 5 5 5 4 4 3 2

20 7 7 6 6 5 5 4 4 3 3
_________________
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:53 pm

Does this mean that, for example, a fireball (if a 3rd level spell) would have a max damage dic of 3d6 + int mod? If so, that's interesting.
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Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:06 pm

Yep, but there is there is to counter is kinda...

Empower Spell: The Arcanist can draw upon the chaotic powers of magic and charge his spells for a greater effect. Any spell that has an increasable die effect, the Arcanist can add additional dice, but for each die increased in this way, the challenge class goes up by 1.
_________________
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:42 pm

That was my suggestion, so yes.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:09 pm

That's pretty interesting. It also can put a bit more focus on a wizards spells rather than just "heavy blasting."

Next question - would the rule for using a higher level spot for a lower level spell affect the dice of damage? Example - taking the fireball, again; I memorize it in a 6th level spell slot. Would it do 6d6 damage plus Int odifier?
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:21 pm

Not by the rules because that cannot be done. If you houserule it otherwise, you have to also houserule its residual effects. However, I would still argue -- no. Fireball is a 3rfd level spell. If you cast it as a 6th level spell, then you waste a perfectly useful 6th level spell slot.
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Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:40 am

What do you guys think about the other casting rules? Like the casting roll etc?

Would is scale well with level etc?

Should I keep the + level with the Siege check?

Any other suggestions?
_________________
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:41 am

Yep, I agree.
_________________
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:35 am

Well, it wouldn't be a "waste" if you allowed for such rules.
So, what would the difference be between momorizing some 6th level spell that will do 6d6 damage (plus Int modifier) and memorizing fireball in a 6th level slot that will do 6d6 damage (again, plus Int mod)? If variable effects are no longer tied to caster level but to spell level, I wouldn't see a problem with allowing spells memorized at higher levels for effect. Plus it allows for a bit of customizartion and preference.
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Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:46 pm

Well, it would not be a "waste" per say no. But I think it would take away from the Arcanists ability to risk empowring the fireballs to deal out more dxamage in a tight siutation.

Dont forget, ther is always delayed blast fireball for a higher level spell.

And other such things.
_________________
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:50 pm

What kind of standard mods should there be for penalties?

Like, of the Arcanist is in Melee combat: -2

Uneven Footing: -1

Flanked: -1

Fails a Concentration Check: -2

???
_________________
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:24 pm

Last New Class

THE SWASHBUCKLER (Which is really just the Duelist, Shhhhh, dont tell)

Anyone can kill with the tip of a sword, there is no art in it. The use of the edge of the blade, however, is more artistic. - Anonymous

ABILITIES:

Canny Defense: When wearing armor he is proficient with or no armor, the Swashbuckler adds his Intelligence Mod. to his Dex. Mod for bonus to AC.

Precise Strike: When using a melee weapon the swashbuckler is proficient with, and the target had some kind of discernable anatomy, the Swashbuckler gets to add his character level to damage as bonus damage, round up, minimal 1.

Improved Reaction: The Swashbuckler senses has been hones to a point that he can almost react before all others, he gains a +1 bonus on the initiative roll.

Parry: At 4th level, the Swashbuckler gains the ability to parry once a round. This is treated as an extra action but only to parry. Once every 4 rounds, on a incoming melee attack, the Swashbuckler can attempt to parry the attack with a weapon the he is proficient with. The Swashbuckler makes a standard attack roll (1d20 + BtH + Str. Mod.) versus the total the attacker got. If the Swashbucklers total was greater then the attackers total, he successfully parrys the attack. If the Swashbucklers total was lower, then the attack succeeds as usual.

Acrobatic Charge: At 6th Level, the Swashbuckler as fine turned the art if fighting across tables and swing on ropes, and crossing tough terrain very fast. He can charge up and over just about any terrain without the call for a roll.

Combat Reflexes: At 10th Level, the Swashbuckler has become so graceful at his fighting style that he can disengage from melee combat (after attacking) but before moving for the round without drawing any of the negative penalties for during so.

Level HDs BtH EPP

1 d10 +1 0

2 d10 +1 1,751

3 d10 +1 3,501

4 d10 +2 7,001

5 d10 +2 14,001

6 d10 +2 25,001

7 d10 +3 50,001

8 d10 +3 90,001

9 d10 +3 150,001

10 d10 +4 200,001

11 +4 HP +4 350,001

12 +4 HP +4 500,001

13+ +150,000 per level
_________________
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:49 pm

Well, maybe morph empowering a little...just a suggestion.

Empower: The Arcanist can memorize a given spell as a higher level spell, if he or she chooses. However, by doing so, not only will this require a higher level spell slot, but the difficulty of the spell will increase by the difference of the original spell level and the higher spell level it is memorized.

For example, Falstaff is a 13th level Arcanist. He plans on memorzing fireball as a 6th level spell today. This takes a 6th level spell slot. When the spell is cast, Falstaff makes a casting check: 12 + 6 (the level if the fireball memorized as a 6th level spell) + plus any mods at the time of the casting.

This combines the suggestion I made and integrates into your system. Might be worth a thought or two.
I like the swashbuckler so far...looks pretty good! The wording at the beginning of the Parry description is a little confusing.
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Relaxo · Post by **Relaxo** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:48 pm

I hadn't heard of Iron Heros until now, but it looks SWEET!

I just ordered the book.

Will dig into this thread too when I get a chance.

(maybe could have saved the money! LOL)

If anyone's looking for a hardback, it's available on Amazon about 26 bucks.