Hey Steve, how about a Ultimate/Alternate Classes book?

Sir Ironside · Post by **Sir Ironside** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:22 am

Has there ever been any thought to creating a Ultimate/Alternate Classes book in the same format as books like Castellan's Arm's & Armor? You know, creating new classes outside of what is already presented in the PH.

30 pages of new classes, that can be used in C&C would be a pretty cool book.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:35 am

Product called Adventurer's Backpack is rumored to have such things, as the CKG is also supposed to (as I hear it) have alternate class abilities and new things to get above level 12... so, in essence: basically.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:56 pm

serleran wrote:
Product called Adventurer's Backpack is rumored to have such things, as the CKG is also supposed to (as I hear it) have alternate class abilities and new things to get above level 12... so, in essence: basically.

Yeah. The CKG is only expanding on already existing classes. It would be nice to see an expanded class list, but instead of seeng something Unearthed Aracana-like, I'd rather see something more along the lines of regoinal/cultural books that had specific classes. A pirate-settign with pirate/swashbuckler themed classes, a "primitive setting" book with shamans and witch-doctors, an oriental books with the requisite themed oriential characters, etc.
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Sir Ironside · Post by **Sir Ironside** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:13 pm

Lord Dynel wrote:
Yeah. The CKG is only expanding on already existing classes. It would be nice to see an expanded class list, but instead of seeng something Unearthed Aracana-like, I'd rather see something more along the lines of regoinal/cultural books that had specific classes. A pirate-settign with pirate/swashbuckler themed classes, a "primitive setting" book with shamans and witch-doctors, an oriental books with the requisite themed oriential characters, etc.

This sounds even better!

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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:42 am

Sir Ironside wrote:
This sounds even better!

Thanks, hoss!
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Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:00 pm

Sir Ironside wrote:
Has there ever been any thought to creating a Ultimate/Alternate Classes book in the same format as books like Castellan's Arm's & Armor? You know, creating new classes outside of what is already presented in the PH.

30 pages of new classes, that can be used in C&C would be a pretty cool book.

I toy with this idea all the time. Mac and Davis grumble at me whenever I do toy with it as they both comment you can modify any class to be a specialty class...to which I respond, but it misses out on flavor. Robin Hood is an archer, not a fighter.

There were plans to put some of this in the CKG, but I nixed them as the book itself was too unmanageable with too much material. I really don't like hardback books that range over 350 pages as the binding support begins to break down around that length.

The Crusader is the next place for such concepts, and really the perfect home for it (and I have not forgotten your submissions on the monsters).

The next best home is of course, the Adventure's Backpack. A project that is on the back burner until CKG is finished. Its actually a project I really want to get my teeth into as its billed to be a non-intrusive, expansion of the game...no real rules or adjustments, just things to enhance play if that makes sense.

Dynel, we have several of those books on the table in concept phase, but they are very difficult to market. A pirate book for instance appeals to only X% of your market and an amazon book appeals ... well with Peter's art that might appeal to a broader market...but a musketeer book would appeal to only x%. I toy with different formats, but the real clincher comes in product and time, etc etc...insert boring as hell financial/marketing cost outlay discussion.

But in a world where the CKG actually exists, there will be a whole new vista of things we can do!
(Note: i blame everything on the CKG now.)

Steve
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Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:18 pm

Troll Lord wrote:
(Note: i blame everything on the CKG now.)

Steve

You know, if you would just finish the damn thing, you could stop that.
R-
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Joe · Post by **Joe** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:29 pm

I prefer to find ways to play the classic in new ways.

Call me crazy, but I just think it takes more imagination to do so, and where I come from...frpgs are about the imagination.

So if Robin Hood was an archer and not a fighter, then what is a ranger?

Sounds like Mac & Davis share my views on this.

Besides, a fighter makes a better archer anyway.
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:31 pm

Joe wrote:
I prefer to find ways to play the classic in new ways.

Call me crazy, but I just think it takes more imagination to do so, and where I come from...frpgs are about the imagination.

So if Robin Hood was an archer and not a fighter, then what is a ranger?

Sounds like Mac & Davis share my views on this.

Besides, a fighter makes a better archer anyway.

Hey Joe, where you goin' with that gun in yo hand?

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:41 pm

Breakdaddy wrote:
Hey Joe, where you goin' with that gun in yo hand?

He might be goin down to shot his old lady...

R-
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:50 pm

I think he may have caught her messin' round with another man...

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:59 pm

R-
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Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:57 pm

Well I for 1 would love to see all those speciality books. I love to mine the different areas/time frames for ideas. Also (though I'm not a marketing expert) wouldn't there be some bleed over between the books so that a pirate book would lead to a musketeer book so you are appealing to .x% and .y% etc etc.

Quote:
and an amazon book appeals ... well with Peter's art that might appeal to a broader market

There is always that! plus picture his work on a female pirate caption, a female swashbuckler/spy etc and I'm sure every speciality will sell like hot cakes.

Quote:
Troll Lord wrote:

(Note: i blame everything on the CKG now.)

Steve

You know, if you would just finish the damn thing, you could stop that.

R-

Tooooooo True!

Quote:
So if Robin Hood was an archer and not a fighter, then what is a ranger?

That's easy, a ranger is ... a ranger. -That sounds more snarky than i mean it. It's completely tongue and cheek - Historically there is a huge difference between a fighter trained to fight hand and hand (the classic fighter) and a fighter trained in ranged combat (be it bow crossbow or any other ranged weapon). On top of that the ranger is a protector of woodland and trained to fight there and also focused on killing a specific enemy.

Of course you could play a robin hood type character with either a fighter (specialized in the bow) or a ranger, but at the same time there will be areas that just don't fit right. That is why I love the idea of extra speciality classes, plus to make it more life like, good rules for multi classing. -(class and a half is also o good fix for this too)

Breakdaddy/Rigon

good song, but I think you were a little flat there. you might need to practice a little more
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zarathustra · Post by **zarathustra** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:28 am

Joe wrote:
I prefer to find ways to play the classic in new ways.

Call me crazy, but I just think it takes more imagination to do so, and where I come from...frpgs are about the imagination.

So if Robin Hood was an archer and not a fighter, then what is a ranger?

Sounds like Mac & Davis share my views on this.

Besides, a fighter makes a better archer anyway.

my thoughts exactly.

I'd hate to see C&C end up with a thousand useless kits and splat books like 2e dnd did (maybe other editions too).

There are thirteen classes and scope for multi classing, any character idea should be gettable with that and some imagination.

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:09 am

zarathustra wrote:
my thoughts exactly.

I'd hate to see C&C end up with a thousand useless kits and splat books like 2e dnd did (maybe other editions too).

There are thirteen classes and scope for multi classing, any character idea should be gettable with that and some imagination.

+1

R-
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Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:10 am

Lurker wrote:
Breakdaddy/Rigon

good song, but I think you were a little flat there. you might need to practice a little more

What do you know, you're tone deaf.

R-
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:41 am

Rigon wrote:
What do you know, you're tone deaf.

R-

Awwwwwww yeaahhhhhhhhh

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:05 am

Don't mess with BD.

He's a modern day warrior

mean, mean stride.

R-
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Sir Ironside · Post by **Sir Ironside** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:44 am

Joe wrote:
Call me crazy, but I just think it takes more imagination to do so, and where I come from...frpgs are about the imagination.

You forgot the, "Get of my lawn ya dirty kids!" *Puzzled* Soooooo, your doing it wrong because you'd like to see official TLG alternate classes, and this somehow makes my imagination, in rpg's inferior to yours?

Call me crazy all you want, but I'd enjoy books like these, and I'm a grognard, who doesn't live in the past and you don't need to buy them, so why prevent others the opportunity?
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zarathustra · Post by **zarathustra** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:17 am

Sir Ironside wrote:
You forgot the, "Get of my lawn ya dirty kids!" *Puzzled* Soooooo, your doing it wrong because you'd like to see official TLG alternate classes, and this somehow makes my imagination, in rpg's inferior to yours?

Call me crazy all you want, but I'd enjoy books like these, and I'm a grognard, who doesn't live in the past and you don't need to buy them, so why prevent others the opportunity?

I was reconsidering my own post (along Joes lines) even after I wrote it. If other people want 'em and the Trolls want to make 'em, go ahead, I don't need to buy them and my philosphy needn't be evryones.

I DO wonder if enough meaningful classes could be created to fill a whole book without dropping quality though. Perhaps a new class or two classes in whichever campaign expansions they are working on/releasing might be a good idea.

To take some example from around here you could do a book on a pirate type campaign with rules for sea travel, nautical rules/ship combat, a new sea monster or two, a water based adventure/scenario or two and include say the Mariner type class I've seen around here and whatever else they come up with (sea wizard, whatever). That way you have a meaninful product like the Black Libram and not just the kind of shady filler based splat book some of us have fallen victim to before.

I like the treatment of necro's in the Black Libram and would be a big fan if all treatments were of such quality.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:34 am

Sir Ironside wrote:
You forgot the, "Get of my lawn ya dirty kids!" *Puzzled* Soooooo, your doing it wrong because you'd like to see official TLG alternate classes, and this somehow makes my imagination, in rpg's inferior to yours?

Call me crazy all you want, but I'd enjoy books like these, and I'm a grognard, who doesn't live in the past and you don't need to buy them, so why prevent others the opportunity?

Dude...pill...

It called an off hand remark, but who am I...make it what you will.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:17 am

I understand what Steve was saying, about needing a market for cultural-specific books. Welll, maybe instead of doing one culture per book, have multiple cultures per volume. I don't know if that'd make it any more appealing. The "Unearthed Arcana" sttyle book would certainly work, but I think since there aren't many more "generic" classes left to cover, it's make it a little difficult to do without looking contrived. But that's my opinion. I could see an archer, a witch, a swashbuckler, maybe a sage, and maybe one more (like a beastmaster) and a few races. You'd want to keep them generic enough to use in any setting, though, so it'd appeal to as many as possible.
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Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:35 pm

Rigon wrote:
You know, if you would just finish the damn thing, you could stop that.
R-

Every time I work on this book I think of that scene from Monty Python and the Life of Brian, just before Brian joins the PFJ when Michael Palin is going on and on about women this and women that and finally pauses, confused as to what his original point was and says "where was I?"

Cleese remarks "I think you'd finished."

"Oh....right."

I'm just waiting for someone to say: I think you've finished! And I'll walk away confused and bewildered.

Steve
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:40 pm

Rigon wrote:
Don't mess with BD.

He's a modern day warrior

mean, mean stride.

R-

WORD!

Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:52 pm

Joe wrote:
So if Robin Hood was an archer and not a fighter, then what is a ranger? Sounds like Mac & Davis share my views on this.

Besides, a fighter makes a better archer anyway.

Robin Hood is a Knight actually.

Steve
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Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:54 pm

zarathustra wrote:
my thoughts exactly.

I'd hate to see C&C end up with a thousand useless kits and splat books like 2e dnd did (maybe other editions too).

There are thirteen classes and scope for multi classing, any character idea should be gettable with that and some imagination.

Thankfully with our rate of production, that would take about 37 years to accomplish. hahahaha

Steve
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Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:59 pm

Lord Dynel wrote:
I understand what Steve was saying, about needing a market for cultural-specific books. Welll, maybe instead of doing one culture per book, have multiple cultures per volume. I don't know if that'd make it any more appealing. The "Unearthed Arcana" sttyle book would certainly work, but I think since there aren't many more "generic" classes left to cover, it's make it a little difficult to do without looking contrived. But that's my opinion. I could see an archer, a witch, a swashbuckler, maybe a sage, and maybe one more (like a beastmaster) and a few races. You'd want to keep them generic enough to use in any setting, though, so it'd appeal to as many as possible.

I have a witch around here somewhere, as a monster. It was supposed to go in the M&T of Aihrde as the A series has one in it somewhere. ($*(@# I just remembered I have A7 here on my desk to finalize!)....

Anyway, I didn't finish it as I was too tired of complicated monsters to mess with it. But I've always loved the witch.

Steve
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Sir Ironside · Post by **Sir Ironside** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:19 pm

Troll Lord wrote:
Anyway, I didn't finish it as I was too tired of complicated monsters to mess with it. But I've always loved the witch.

Well I have no love for either of my ex-wives...

Oh... you wrote witch!
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Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:40 pm

Sir Ironside wrote:
Well I have no love for either of my ex-wives...

Oh... you wrote witch!

& Rigon said I was deaf, at least I can see the difference between a w and ...

Quote:
Robin Hood is a Knight actually.

Steve

Too true, and I remember trying to make a "historic" Robin hood back in 1e and getting looked at like an idiot when I pointed that out. To me that kind of stuff makes multi classing rules so important.

Quote:
But I've always loved the witch.

Me too! things like this would sell me a book or three! Especially if Peter did a remake of the red head witch flying on the broom stick! -I might have a little trouble selling my wife on the idea that it's just a game book though!
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Joe · Post by **Joe** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:33 pm

Robin Hood may have been a knight but so is Paul McCartney and Patrick Stewart.

Something tells me we wont be seeing them mounting a charge with a lance any time soon, much less splitting hairs on a bullseye.

I don't understand...i thought the classic "Witch" was already covered numerous times before. Just put a pointy hat and warty nose on any existing hag type an voila!

Or are we talking about the angry, men hating, feminazi tree hugging witches? The kind that hang out in any college town USA?

i can see the potential for some fun role play then.
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Hey Steve, how about a Ultimate/Alternate Classes book?

Hey Steve, how about a Ultimate/Alternate Classes book?

Re: Hey Steve, how about a Ultimate/Alternate Classes book?

Re: Hey Steve, how about a Ultimate/Alternate Classes book?

Re: Hey Steve, how about a Ultimate/Alternate Classes book?